Dogs, mirrors, self awareness...

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:37:50 -0400, Logic316 wrote:

wrote:

I'll add to this "debate".


Moonspeak, the exact points you mentioned (Wikipedia article on the
"mirror test" as well as animals recognizing objects that belong to
them) have already been discussed absolutely to death in this and other
parallel threads. This debate was originally about whether fish are able
to anticipate food,

It was about whether or not they are capable of anticipating at all.

but it gradually evolved into a mini flame war

The conflict between Goo and myself has been going on for about
5 years, and is not important at all to the subject being discussed. From
a surface thinking pov it's possible that the insults exchanged and lies
presented by Goo are the most important things, but in regards to the
subject being discussed they are actually meaningless even if they
seem to have significance to other people for some reason.

about
whether dogs or other animals have self-awareness.

It was started by you:
__________________________________________________ _______
From: Logic316
Message-ID:
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:06:41 -0400

wrote:
I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from
a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.
--
I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.

This poem is fundamentally flawed. Most animals, including avian
species, lack the necessary mental capacity to have a sense of "self" in
the first place.

- Logic316
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
However,
rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish really isn't appropriate for extended
discussions about cat or dog psychology, so perhaps you shouldn't
crosspost to this newsgroup if you wish to reply to this discussion.

- Logic316

The only reason not to post to the goldfish group, would be
if/because no one in that group is capable of carrying on a decent
discussion about it. Notice that *you* began the discussion, but
when it started to be shown that your theory is incorrect, and also
based on a faulty testing method, you want the discussion to just
go away so you don't have to think about or learn something that
for some reason you just don't happen to like. So whether you're
willing to admit it to yourself or not Logic, this has been/is also a
test of yourself, and possibly of your goldfish group as well.

dh@. wrote:

rambling BS snipped


It was started by you:

No, it was started by whoever wrote that cute poem about a bird having
the ability to feel sorry for itself. Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered
replying and performing a dissection on it (it was just a poem after
all), but this thread has gone on long enough here just the same. And
I'm not the one who caused it to degenerate into a ****ing contest.


The only reason not to post to the goldfish group, would be
if/because no one in that group is capable of carrying on a decent
discussion about it.

It's true that in most newsgroups people don't mind an off-topic thread
now and then. But it's just gone on too long and has reached the point
where no further evidence is being introduced on either side of the
debate, you're saying "yes they do" and Rudy's saying "no they don't"
like a couple of kids, and no further progress is being made on this
issue. Not to mention, your constant bickering makes things extremely
unpleasant around here.

- Logic316




"Don't get excited about a tax cut. It's like a mugger giving you back
fare for a taxi."
-- Arnold Glasow

"Logic316" wrote

your constant bickering makes things extremely unpleasant around here.

Do you need a reminder of filters? If your experience is being made
unpleasant, you are allowing it.

Dutch wrote:
"Logic316" wrote


your constant bickering makes things extremely unpleasant around here.


Do you need a reminder of filters? If your experience is being made
unpleasant, you are allowing it.


Unfortunately, the usenet kill filter is currently broken on Mozilla
Thunderbird, but will hopefully be fixed in a future release. I would
consider changing to another app, but the spam filter on this one is
pretty awesome.

- Logic316



"If people were required to *know* all the laws, and not just to
obey them, the government would be overthrown tomorrow."