alternative to using suction cups?

Hi all,

I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
then stop adhering. floating thermometers and wire-hanging heaters are
fine by me, but floating spray bar can cause problems (or free-floating
intake tube for that matter) especially where I will be aiming the hole
for maximum surface agitation with least noise (will be working on the
compromise, obviously).

are there good alternatives that will not require me spending hours
making a jig or some unsightly contraption to hold it in place
mechanically? I'd hate to spend the time aiming the spray bar in
correct orientation and shortly it will be floating just because the
suction cups stop sticking on to glass aquarium wall... I'd figured
someone must have thought about some elegant solution to this problem.

I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
place...

any suggestiong will be appreciated!

linda

ps this was not an issue with HOT Magnum canister.. now with a
floor-bound canister with intake/output tube that is free-moving, it
makes me think...

In article .com,
LM wrote:
Hi all,

I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
then stop adhering.

So buy a half dozen spares, replac4e when they get old. End of problem.

I've found the Hagen black ones sold as parts for fluvals last many years,
7-8 years so far and they're still ok but YMMV. They're the same ones
as on the Hagen sponge filters too. The Green Eheim ones are good
too. I have never had luck with the clear ones.

I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
place...

That'll work. There are rare earth "super manets" that are unbelievably
strong, commonly available. I'm not sure I'd bother siliconing them,
I don't *think* they're gonna rust and anything they leech into the
water is going to be so slow any halfway decent water chage regimen
should take care of it.

If you do use silicone use as thin and flat a layer as you can.

Use the smallest rare earth megnets you can find. They're so damn
powerful then SSSSNAP! into place and can do so with tremendous
force. Enough to break glass? Good question. Possibly.

I have a bunch of spare suction cups and don't worry about these things :-)




--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
LM wrote:
Hi all,

I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
then stop adhering.

So buy a half dozen spares, replac4e when they get old. End of problem.

I've found the Hagen black ones sold as parts for fluvals last many years,
7-8 years so far and they're still ok but YMMV. They're the same ones
as on the Hagen sponge filters too. The Green Eheim ones are good
too. I have never had luck with the clear ones.

I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
place...

That'll work. There are rare earth "super manets" that are unbelievably
strong, commonly available. I'm not sure I'd bother siliconing them,
I don't *think* they're gonna rust and anything they leech into the
water is going to be so slow any halfway decent water chage regimen
should take care of it.

If you do use silicone use as thin and flat a layer as you can.

Use the smallest rare earth megnets you can find. They're so damn
powerful then SSSSNAP! into place and can do so with tremendous
force. Enough to break glass? Good question. Possibly.

I have a bunch of spare suction cups and don't worry about these things
:-)




--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net


The only thing I can add is that you should tie off the hoses in some way,
such that there is NO stress on the suction cups. With stress they will
fatigue with time. Without the initial stress, they can last for years.
Remember to tie off the hoses somewhere along the path to the filter, so
that filter maintenance does not inadvertently add stress later on.

Some other ideas, sometimes the suction cup stays on and the spray bar pops
out. I've seen cups with an elastic band to go around the pipe (on the
newer Fluval canisters), but I haven't tried them yet. I have used 2 small
ty-raps to do the same thing. One around the cup base, and the other around
the 1st ty-rap and then around the pipe.

After I have the hoses & spray bars in position, I then set about hiding
them, first with strategically positioned rocks and then some silk plants.
I frequently use the rocks to pin the pipes/hoses back against the suction
cups.

hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

You can try to glue the cups. That will solve your problem for sure.
Use the aqua safe glue please. You don't want to kill your fish.

Hi all,

I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
then stop adhering. floating thermometers and wire-hanging heaters are
fine by me, but floating spray bar can cause problems (or free-floating
intake tube for that matter) especially where I will be aiming the hole
for maximum surface agitation with least noise (will be working on the
compromise, obviously).

are there good alternatives that will not require me spending hours
making a jig or some unsightly contraption to hold it in place
mechanically? I'd hate to spend the time aiming the spray bar in
correct orientation and shortly it will be floating just because the
suction cups stop sticking on to glass aquarium wall... I'd figured
someone must have thought about some elegant solution to this problem.

I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
place...

any suggestiong will be appreciated!

linda

ps this was not an issue with HOT Magnum canister.. now with a
floor-bound canister with intake/output tube that is free-moving, it
makes me think...

Hi Netmax,

what's a ty-rap? is that sometime like a cable tie?

your stress theory makes sense. I'll try to lock the outlet pipe in
place externally (cable tie and one of those self-adhesive cable tie
anchors?) and then position the spray bars accordingly..

linda

yeah.. I thought of using aquarium silicone to glue the suction cups,
but that would a bit too permanent.. if I ever decide to want to move
things around... wont' work well :-(

linda

On 12 Feb 2006 19:29:07 -0800, "LM" wrote:

yeah.. I thought of using aquarium silicone to glue the suction cups,
but that would a bit too permanent.. if I ever decide to want to move
things around... wont' work well :-(

linda

the silicone comes off the glass quite easily with a scraper, razor
blade or such. I'm not sure how well it would stick to the suction
cup, though.

Charles wrote:

the silicone comes off the glass quite easily with a scraper, razor
blade or such. I'm not sure how well it would stick to the suction
cup, though.

Just been there and done that - it doesn't stick to the clear suction
cups - don't know if the black are different.

Liz

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
LM wrote:
Hi all,

I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
then stop adhering.

So buy a half dozen spares, replac4e when they get old. End of problem.


The black ones don't wear out as easily, but they don't seem to stick for me
either. The damn titanium thermometers are always coming loose. Surprisingly
the Eheim spraybar has stuck fairly well, despite the stress from their too
stiff tubing. It did come loose once, but the stiff tubing stopped it from
escaping the tank. The clear suction cups on the Penguin powerheads wear out
in no time. I never have found a replacement for these either.


I've found the Hagen black ones sold as parts for fluvals last many years,
7-8 years so far and they're still ok but YMMV. They're the same ones
as on the Hagen sponge filters too. The Green Eheim ones are good
too. I have never had luck with the clear ones.

I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
place...

That'll work. There are rare earth "super manets" that are unbelievably
strong, commonly available. I'm not sure I'd bother siliconing them,
I don't *think* they're gonna rust and anything they leech into the
water is going to be so slow any halfway decent water chage regimen
should take care of it.

If you do use silicone use as thin and flat a layer as you can.

Use the smallest rare earth megnets you can find. They're so damn
powerful then SSSSNAP! into place and can do so with tremendous
force. Enough to break glass? Good question. Possibly.

I have a bunch of spare suction cups and don't worry about these things
:-)




--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

In article . com,
LM wrote:
hi,

any ideas where I can buy the magnets (rare earth types) that is strong
enough to use through a glass pane? I just did a test case using the
fridge magnets, and they didn't hold very well :-P

(yes a tie-wrap is a cable tie)

Rare earth magnets are common as dirt. Pun intended:

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&...agnets+ price

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net