PH Problem

Hi,

I just finished my new pond in the spring. EPDM liner, 12 x 10 x 4'6".

I added plants which are doing well and my kids wanted some fish. I want to
put Koi in the pond.

I did some reading and realized that 0.1% salt in the pond was the first
thing to do since my PH was fine.

I added the salt up to 0.8% and noticed that my PH went through the roof. I
have been adjusting the PH by adding Muriatic acid. The PH drops
temporarily and then begins to rise. When the PH reaches 8.2 or higher I
add more of the acid. Every day for the last week I have been doing this.
What in my pond is causing the PH to continue to want to go high? I have no
concrete and only plants with unscented kitty litter as the soil. In all
there is approximately 18 kgs of kitty litter.

Rob

sorry the message should read that I added salt until level reached 0.08%.

"rob" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...
Hi,

I just finished my new pond in the spring. EPDM liner, 12 x 10 x 4'6".

I added plants which are doing well and my kids wanted some fish. I want
to
put Koi in the pond.

I did some reading and realized that 0.1% salt in the pond was the first
thing to do since my PH was fine.

I added the salt up to 0.8% and noticed that my PH went through the roof.
I
have been adjusting the PH by adding Muriatic acid. The PH drops
temporarily and then begins to rise. When the PH reaches 8.2 or higher I
add more of the acid. Every day for the last week I have been doing this.
What in my pond is causing the PH to continue to want to go high? I have
no
concrete and only plants with unscented kitty litter as the soil. In all
there is approximately 18 kgs of kitty litter.

Rob

How high did the pH go? If it did not go above 9 then it is ok. Trying to
lower it with acid to get it down to 7 or some other magic number consumes
alkalinity as measured with a KH hardness kit. The KH is what helps you
keep a stable pH and should be around 100 or more. If it drops to less than
40 then you are in danger of a pH crash. Are you reading the pH morning and
evening? If the KH is low, then you will have very large changes morning
low to evening high.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"rob" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...
Hi,

I just finished my new pond in the spring. EPDM liner, 12 x 10 x 4'6".

I added plants which are doing well and my kids wanted some fish. I want
to
put Koi in the pond.

I did some reading and realized that 0.1% salt in the pond was the first
thing to do since my PH was fine.

I added the salt up to 0.8% and noticed that my PH went through the roof.
I
have been adjusting the PH by adding Muriatic acid. The PH drops
temporarily and then begins to rise. When the PH reaches 8.2 or higher I
add more of the acid. Every day for the last week I have been doing this.
What in my pond is causing the PH to continue to want to go high? I have
no
concrete and only plants with unscented kitty litter as the soil. In all
there is approximately 18 kgs of kitty litter.

Rob

The level of the PH was an extrapolation since my test kit only measures to
8.6. Same kit I have been using for my aquarium. I don't have a kit to
measure KH. I would like to keep the PH in the range of 7.6 to 8.0. I
expect the PH to lower as the pond matures into the fall and would like to
make the pond comfortable for Koi. No magic number just a comfort zone for
PH. I am in Ottawa Canada so the temperature right now is varying from 58
deg F to 70 deg F. With all the fluctuations in other environmental
conditions I thought keeping a stable neutral PH would be really helpful to
Koi. I measure the PH 3 times a day now, morning 8am, 12 noon, and 8pm. I
adjust the PH in the evening by adding approx 100ml of Muriatic acid. The
variation from 8pm one day to 8am the next day, ie this morning , is plus
0.2 PH. The reading this morning was 7.8 and if it follows the same pattern
as the last week it will continue to rise throughout the day and measure 8
to 8.2 by 8pm tonight. Remember that I have added 100ml of Muriatic acid
the night before so the change would probably be more dramatic if the acid
were not added.

Thanks,
Rob

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:JOuuc.27276$Ly.22418@attbi_s01...
How high did the pH go? If it did not go above 9 then it is ok. Trying
to
lower it with acid to get it down to 7 or some other magic number consumes
alkalinity as measured with a KH hardness kit. The KH is what helps you
keep a stable pH and should be around 100 or more. If it drops to less
than
40 then you are in danger of a pH crash. Are you reading the pH morning
and
evening? If the KH is low, then you will have very large changes morning
low to evening high.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"rob" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...
Hi,

I just finished my new pond in the spring. EPDM liner, 12 x 10 x 4'6".

I added plants which are doing well and my kids wanted some fish. I
want
to
put Koi in the pond.

I did some reading and realized that 0.1% salt in the pond was the first
thing to do since my PH was fine.

I added the salt up to 0.8% and noticed that my PH went through the
roof.
I
have been adjusting the PH by adding Muriatic acid. The PH drops
temporarily and then begins to rise. When the PH reaches 8.2 or higher
I
add more of the acid. Every day for the last week I have been doing
this.
What in my pond is causing the PH to continue to want to go high? I
have
no
concrete and only plants with unscented kitty litter as the soil. In
all
there is approximately 18 kgs of kitty litter.

Rob

salt doesnt affect pH.
what is the pH and hardness of the water out of the tap?
put a handful of the kitty litter into a gallon of water and check the pH of that
after a couple hours.
Ingrid

"rob" wrote:
I just finished my new pond in the spring. EPDM liner, 12 x 10 x 4'6".

I added plants which are doing well and my kids wanted some fish. I want to
put Koi in the pond.

I did some reading and realized that 0.1% salt in the pond was the first
thing to do since my PH was fine.

I added the salt up to 0.8% and noticed that my PH went through the roof. I
have been adjusting the PH by adding Muriatic acid. The PH drops
temporarily and then begins to rise. When the PH reaches 8.2 or higher I
add more of the acid. Every day for the last week I have been doing this.
What in my pond is causing the PH to continue to want to go high? I have no
concrete and only plants with unscented kitty litter as the soil. In all
there is approximately 18 kgs of kitty litter.

Rob







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I was pretty sure salt would not affect pH ..... just didn't know what did.

The tap water I used for the pond has a reading of 8.6 maybe 8.8 since I am
extrapolating. I do not know the hardness of the tap water. I'll use some
of the kitty litter from the pond and let it sit in the tap water and see
what happens.

Thanks,
Rob
wrote in message
...
salt doesnt affect pH.
what is the pH and hardness of the water out of the tap?
put a handful of the kitty litter into a gallon of water and check the pH
of that
after a couple hours.
Ingrid

"rob" wrote:
I just finished my new pond in the spring. EPDM liner, 12 x 10 x 4'6".

I added plants which are doing well and my kids wanted some fish. I want
to
put Koi in the pond.

I did some reading and realized that 0.1% salt in the pond was the first
thing to do since my PH was fine.

I added the salt up to 0.8% and noticed that my PH went through the roof.
I
have been adjusting the PH by adding Muriatic acid. The PH drops
temporarily and then begins to rise. When the PH reaches 8.2 or higher I
add more of the acid. Every day for the last week I have been doing
this.
What in my pond is causing the PH to continue to want to go high? I have
no
concrete and only plants with unscented kitty litter as the soil. In all
there is approximately 18 kgs of kitty litter.

Rob







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

take your tap water to the fish store and ask them to test it. maybe your kit is
old. Ingrid

"rob" wrote:

I was pretty sure salt would not affect pH ..... just didn't know what did.

The tap water I used for the pond has a reading of 8.6 maybe 8.8 since I am
extrapolating. I do not know the hardness of the tap water. I'll use some
of the kitty litter from the pond and let it sit in the tap water and see
what happens.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

And while you're there, buy a KH kit, buffering is what keeps your pH
stable.

Koi can be perfectly happy at 8.5 (I won't say higher, but I know people
who do keep them at higher pH, unfortunately the filter bacteria doesn't
work well above 8.5.) ~ jan

take your tap water to the fish store and ask them to test it. maybe your kit is
old. Ingrid

"rob" wrote:

I was pretty sure salt would not affect pH ..... just didn't know what did.

The tap water I used for the pond has a reading of 8.6 maybe 8.8 since I am
extrapolating. I do not know the hardness of the tap water. I'll use some
of the kitty litter from the pond and let it sit in the tap water and see
what happens.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Thankyou. I will do that

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
And while you're there, buy a KH kit, buffering is what keeps your pH
stable.

Koi can be perfectly happy at 8.5 (I won't say higher, but I know people
who do keep them at higher pH, unfortunately the filter bacteria doesn't
work well above 8.5.) ~ jan

take your tap water to the fish store and ask them to test it. maybe
your kit is
old. Ingrid

"rob" wrote:

I was pretty sure salt would not affect pH ..... just didn't know what
did.

The tap water I used for the pond has a reading of 8.6 maybe 8.8 since I
am
extrapolating. I do not know the hardness of the tap water. I'll use
some
of the kitty litter from the pond and let it sit in the tap water and
see
what happens.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)