High Nitrate Level for Koi

I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

(MC) wrote:
I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

Yeah, that's a problem. Start doing water changes to drive it down to something
more reasonable (BTW, filtration does very little for nitrates -- they're the
end product of the nitrogen cycle. You either have to have lots of green
growing stuff to suck up the nitrates, or do water changes to dilute them).

yup, big water changes and quit feeding them low quality food and as much food.
welcome to the world of aquariums. Ingrid

Andy Hill wrote:

(MC) wrote:
I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

Yeah, that's a problem. Start doing water changes to drive it down to something
more reasonable (BTW, filtration does very little for nitrates -- they're the
end product of the nitrogen cycle. You either have to have lots of green
growing stuff to suck up the nitrates, or do water changes to dilute them).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

What do you mean by "low quality food"? What types of food helps keep
the nitrates low?

wrote in message ...
yup, big water changes and quit feeding them low quality food and as much food.
welcome to the world of aquariums. Ingrid

Andy Hill wrote:

(MC) wrote:
I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

Yeah, that's a problem. Start doing water changes to drive it down to something
more reasonable (BTW, filtration does very little for nitrates -- they're the
end product of the nitrogen cycle. You either have to have lots of green
growing stuff to suck up the nitrates, or do water changes to dilute them).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"MC" wrote in message
...
What do you mean by "low quality food"? What types of food helps keep
the nitrates low?

I don't see the food quality as having anything to do with Nitrates though
excess feed can promote a rise in Phosphates in the Aquarium
world....Nitrates are just the end product from any mature bio filter -
Ammonia, Nitrites & then Nitrates.

There are a few other things you can do to help deal with Nitrates....

1) Buy something like a Nitragon or Nitraking Nitrate filter....usually used
for tap water to prepare Nitrate free water for aquariums. You can stick one
on a pump but it needs to be quite powerfull (in aquarium terms - nothing
like a pond pump!)

2) Buy some "Nitrazorb" - works on the same principle as above but goes in
the filter (or can just sit in the water - its in a porous sachet). You'd
probably need quite a lot of it (depending on how much water you are dealing
with) and its not cheap.

Both of these are Ion exchange filters i.e. they need to be recharged with
salt water (much like a domestic water softener) periodically. Something
like a Nitragon will give you roughly 75-100 gallons of Nitrate free tap
water before it needs a recharge though you can get bigger units.

Option 3 is to run up a bacterial nitrate filter. Do a google search for
"Nitrate filter" and you will find some discussion about how these work &
links to sites detailing how you can build them fairly cheaply. They take a
week or 3 to run them up - basically you create an Anaerobic filter by
passing water through it very slowly - this becomes oxygen free as it passes
through the filter. You get bacteria building up which then eat Nitrate to
get Oxygen thus releasing Nitrogen. They can be tricky. Run it too slowly &
you get sulphur dioxide, too fast & the filter breaks down because you need
an oxygen free environment. You also have to feed the filter periodically
with Alcohol of some description (I think!)

A fourth option is to buy a sulphur based Nitrate filter. I have one of
these on a 75G fish tank which is heavily stocked & it has zero Nitrates.
This works in much the same way as option 3 above but does not require
feeding - the sulphur removes the need for this apparently. One "side
effect" of this type of filter is that it seems to strip the Kh buffer out
of the water - and does so quite quickly. As a result I add Baking Soda
(Bicarbonate of SOda) to my tank every few days. Its a bit of a pain BUT a
lot less aggravation than dealing with Nitrates by constantly changing
water. This side effect may apply to option 3 above as well - no direct
experience of use so I can't say!

HTH

rgds

Iain

Iain,

The options you mentioned are affective but not for the faint at heart. The
require a lot of tinkering.

You are also right in saying the food has nothing to do with nitrates.
Ingrid is always trying to put the blame on any food that is not high
protein and costs an arm and a leg. She is not a nutritionist and refuses
to read the literature about the needs of Goldfish and KOI, but keeps up her
diatribe along these lines blaming inexpensive foods for everything

If people would do the research they would find that common Goldfish and KOI
can handle much higher nitrates, but, like people, the fish are all
different and some are more susceptible than others thus showing reactions
to lower concentrations. Some Ornamental varieties of Goldfish seem to be
more prone to be affected by lower nitrate concentrations, but that have
never been proven or written in a lab research.

In any event, a simpler way to take care of nitrates is to put stems of
Philodendrons in your water and let them got to town. My nitrates are
virtually zero at all times and I have beautiful philodendrons growing
everywhere. Once the roots adapt to the water environment they do great.
The only other alternative is to do water changes, frequently, or use the
nitra-sorbs you mentioned. Which, in my opinion, is a needless expense,
when philodendrons do the job, virtually for free.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------
"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

"MC" wrote in message
...
What do you mean by "low quality food"? What types of food helps keep
the nitrates low?

I don't see the food quality as having anything to do with Nitrates though
excess feed can promote a rise in Phosphates in the Aquarium
world....Nitrates are just the end product from any mature bio filter -
Ammonia, Nitrites & then Nitrates.

There are a few other things you can do to help deal with Nitrates....

1) Buy something like a Nitragon or Nitraking Nitrate filter....usually
used
for tap water to prepare Nitrate free water for aquariums. You can stick
one
on a pump but it needs to be quite powerfull (in aquarium terms - nothing
like a pond pump!)

2) Buy some "Nitrazorb" - works on the same principle as above but goes in
the filter (or can just sit in the water - its in a porous sachet). You'd
probably need quite a lot of it (depending on how much water you are
dealing
with) and its not cheap.

Both of these are Ion exchange filters i.e. they need to be recharged with
salt water (much like a domestic water softener) periodically. Something
like a Nitragon will give you roughly 75-100 gallons of Nitrate free tap
water before it needs a recharge though you can get bigger units.

Option 3 is to run up a bacterial nitrate filter. Do a google search for
"Nitrate filter" and you will find some discussion about how these work &
links to sites detailing how you can build them fairly cheaply. They take
a
week or 3 to run them up - basically you create an Anaerobic filter by
passing water through it very slowly - this becomes oxygen free as it
passes
through the filter. You get bacteria building up which then eat Nitrate to
get Oxygen thus releasing Nitrogen. They can be tricky. Run it too slowly
&
you get sulphur dioxide, too fast & the filter breaks down because you
need
an oxygen free environment. You also have to feed the filter periodically
with Alcohol of some description (I think!)

A fourth option is to buy a sulphur based Nitrate filter. I have one of
these on a 75G fish tank which is heavily stocked & it has zero Nitrates.
This works in much the same way as option 3 above but does not require
feeding - the sulphur removes the need for this apparently. One "side
effect" of this type of filter is that it seems to strip the Kh buffer out
of the water - and does so quite quickly. As a result I add Baking Soda
(Bicarbonate of SOda) to my tank every few days. Its a bit of a pain BUT a
lot less aggravation than dealing with Nitrates by constantly changing
water. This side effect may apply to option 3 above as well - no direct
experience of use so I can't say!

HTH

rgds

Iain

low quality food has a lot of carbohydrates and/or proteins in a form that is
undigestible by koi. basically, it goes in one end and out the other without being
well digested and utilized. high quality koi food is both high in protein, but also
the first couple ingredients (indicating the most) are protein sources that come from
the water ... like whitefish, fish meal, krill, etc. if corn is the first
ingredient, the food is low quality as that is both complex carbohydrate and land
based plant.
the idea is to feed high quality, but very little of it at a time. that way the food
is completely digested and what comes out isnt such great food for bacteria to
convert to wastes. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:
What do you mean by "low quality food"? What types of food helps keep
the nitrates low?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.