New here but not new to fish

Hi,

I've been reading through all of the old messages and learning allot about
cichlids which I recently started keeping. I've been keeping tropical fish
for over 30 years and love it.

We recently moved into a new home after almost 30 years in one location and
I was given another tank as a house warming present. I moved a 70 gallon
tank of tropical fish from hard well water to city water without loosing any
fish.. whew! Anyway.. I was given a 46 gallon bow front tank and I was
going to try my hand at salt water fish but after investigating it a bit
more I decided that the cost of just setting up the tank was out of my
budget let alone getting any fish. So I decided on cichlids.

Unfortunately the area I live in has seen all the small pet/fish stores
being eaten up by the "big box stores" like PetSmart and such so I've not
had much success with getting reliable information from the employees. I
did find a Guide to Owning Malawi Cichlids by David E. Boruchowitz. Some of
the information in his book directly disagrees with some of the information
that I've been reading here but so far I've not lost any fish.

So far I know for sure I have

2 Melanochromis auratus

3 Labidochromis caeruleus - blue

2 Labidochromis caeruleus - yellow morph

I also have two of something that I have no clue what they are and haven't
been able to get a good photo of as of yet. The stripes are vertical the
body is black or very dark brown with metallic gold or silver depending on
how the light hits it. They are really gorgeous fish. And I also have 3
sunset gouramis that came with the tank. I'm not found of gouramis but they
seem to be doing fine right now with the cichlids. These gouramis are
really aggressive and when I first added the cichlids they did do alot of
defending themselves (very well I might add) and are now totally left alone.

I've been looking for some chats but haven't found anything that is active.
Any suggestions?

Also if anyone has any clue as to what the two fish that I can't find a
description or picture of any where I would appreciate it.

I do have one more question, I've always kept under populated tanks just
because I prefer how it looks and I've enjoyed the challenge of getting my
fish to grow larger. It appears that cichlids do a bit better in a well
stocked tank. Is this true?

Thanks,
Nanette

hi Nanette,

Welcome to the world of african cichlids!

Also I'd like to add that I'm by no means an expert.

There are lots of cichlid-sites out there but I'd recommend the following
web site as a decent source of information (which also features a chat
room):

www.cichlid-forum.com

Not sure what your unidentified fish are, as there are a lot cichlids with
verticle striping, but I'm not familiar with one that meets your
description. On the site I just mentioned there is a profile section which
lists all a great deal of species with pictures..although it's not set up in
"gallery format" so you'll have to know the name of the fish you're looking
for. You might want to see if your fish resembles any one of these:
pseudotropheus demasoni, pseudotropheus elongatus, pseudotropheus,
cynotilapia afra, labidochromis hongi, labidochromis mbamba for starters.

The labidochromis are generally laid back when compared to other mbuna. Did
you get the blue morph at Petsmart? I've never seen one sold at any of the
pet chain stores or local fish stores in my area.

Yours are probably juveniles right now, but the auratus can be an aggressive
fish and will likely end up dominating the tank...and if they are both males
you might end up losing one in a tank that size due to violence.

Due to the general aggressive/territorial nature of many african cichlids,
underpopulating them may not be a good idea as it presents a greater
opportunity for dominant fish to target specific fish.

For example in under populated conditions, fish A might focus all of its
aggression against fish B and eventually stress it out or kill it.

But in with a little more fish, fish A will might chase or threaten fish B,
C, D and E, and have dominance competion with fish F and G...but not be able
to focus on one particular one, thus spreading the aggression.

Tank size and fish species are also factors. Some fish demand larger
territories...it might wreak havoc on its tank mates in a 29-gallon, but
behave moderately in a 75-gallon. Also some fish are particularly extremely
aggressive with there own kind while ignoring other species. You don't have
to "overstock", but if you are able to sex your fish, some say a sex ratio
of 1 male per 3 females is a good balance.

Adding new fish to the tank may require a little caution as well, as it
appears all the fish know who the "new guys" are.

When I kept tropical community fish (live bearers) I could pretty much add
new fish with ease. Introducing new cichlids to an established tank can have
different results.

I tend to add new fish at night in the darkness so that their introduction
to the tank isn't detected. I've found that adding a new fish during the day
and in "plain view" will attract the attention of most of the fish...and
brings out the mean side even among my most docile fish. No fish wants to
lose their spot in the hierarchy ladder, it seems.

kay-bee

Hi Kay-Bee,

Thanks for the welcome. I'm really enjoying this new adventure. Thank you
for the pointers. After doing so much reading I'm really considering
switching tanks, putting the cichlids in the 70 gallon and the tropical in
the tank I currently have the cichlids in. If I do that the cichlids won't
be in my computer and crafting area in more and I'm really enjoying them
right now. It will also involve a lot of work so I will think about it and
see how the fish do in this tank.

I got the fish at Pet Supplies Plus, which is a chain around here (SE
Michigan), after the first four fish I made a list of the ones I liked and
took it with me to the store. The fish are in two tanks marked "mixed
African cichlids" so it was quite a challenge to figure out what I was
getting. After several hours of trying to identify fish the manager offered
to order fish for me. Which is how I got the blue morphs.

The auratus seem to be getting along fine and not bothering any of the other
fish either. They have taken over one of the plastic caves I picked up.
The blue morphs on the other hand have taken over two sections of the rock
caves I built and chase anything that comes near it. I've not seen any real
fighting as of yet. Also I finally figured out how to sex some of the fish
by the spots on the anal fin and it seems that I have more males than
females. I am going to talk to the manager and see if he will let me
exchange some of the fish for females.

I have to laugh at these fish alot, they have become quite the beggars. My
granddaughter loves to feed them so I let her feed them the "treats" and now
when they see her they just about plaster themselves to the front of the
tank.

As I mentioned in my original post I really had wanted salt water and I'm
finding that not only the coloration of the cichlids are a lot like the
marine fish but so is their personalities and I find it so relaxing to watch
them.

Hopefully as I learn more I can become more active with the group. Right
now I'll probably drive everyone nuts with questions as I'm anxious to do
this right.

Thanks again for the pointers and the link.

Nanette
"kay-bee" wrote in message
news:%tnKe.9150$0d.4017@trnddc02...
hi Nanette,

Welcome to the world of african cichlids!

Also I'd like to add that I'm by no means an expert.

There are lots of cichlid-sites out there but I'd recommend the following
web site as a decent source of information (which also features a chat
room):

www.cichlid-forum.com

Not sure what your unidentified fish are, as there are a lot cichlids with
verticle striping, but I'm not familiar with one that meets your
description. On the site I just mentioned there is a profile section which
lists all a great deal of species with pictures..although it's not set up
in
"gallery format" so you'll have to know the name of the fish you're
looking
for. You might want to see if your fish resembles any one of these:
pseudotropheus demasoni, pseudotropheus elongatus, pseudotropheus,
cynotilapia afra, labidochromis hongi, labidochromis mbamba for starters.

The labidochromis are generally laid back when compared to other mbuna.
Did
you get the blue morph at Petsmart? I've never seen one sold at any of the
pet chain stores or local fish stores in my area.

Yours are probably juveniles right now, but the auratus can be an
aggressive
fish and will likely end up dominating the tank...and if they are both
males
you might end up losing one in a tank that size due to violence.

Due to the general aggressive/territorial nature of many african cichlids,
underpopulating them may not be a good idea as it presents a greater
opportunity for dominant fish to target specific fish.

For example in under populated conditions, fish A might focus all of its
aggression against fish B and eventually stress it out or kill it.

But in with a little more fish, fish A will might chase or threaten fish
B,
C, D and E, and have dominance competion with fish F and G...but not be
able
to focus on one particular one, thus spreading the aggression.

Tank size and fish species are also factors. Some fish demand larger
territories...it might wreak havoc on its tank mates in a 29-gallon, but
behave moderately in a 75-gallon. Also some fish are particularly
extremely
aggressive with there own kind while ignoring other species. You don't
have
to "overstock", but if you are able to sex your fish, some say a sex ratio
of 1 male per 3 females is a good balance.

Adding new fish to the tank may require a little caution as well, as it
appears all the fish know who the "new guys" are.

When I kept tropical community fish (live bearers) I could pretty much add
new fish with ease. Introducing new cichlids to an established tank can
have
different results.

I tend to add new fish at night in the darkness so that their introduction
to the tank isn't detected. I've found that adding a new fish during the
day
and in "plain view" will attract the attention of most of the fish...and
brings out the mean side even among my most docile fish. No fish wants to
lose their spot in the hierarchy ladder, it seems.

kay-bee

hi Nanette,

Glad to hear everything is going well with your cichlids.

Both genders can have egg-spots on their anal fins.

I've had a couple of fish that I could have swore were males turn out to be
females (discovered they were holding eggs).

kay-bee