Fish per gallons?

Okay, so when I first got into the hobby as a kid the standard was 1 fish
per gallon. When I got back into 2-3 years ago I find now it goes by the
actual size of the fish. If I have it figured out correctly by this
standard, in a 10 gallon tank I could have: 10 1 inch fish, 5 2 inch fish,
etc.. Is that about right? Because this leads me to my next question.. Where
do the decorations figure into that equation? I mean, if you have a heavily
planted tank, it would seem like you couldn't have as many fish. Same thing
if the majority of your tank space was taken up by rocks/caves, etc...

Anyway, I'm just curious and my brain won't let me sleep when it's like
this..

Mar
------------------------------------------------
"I meant," said Ipslore, bitterly,"what is there in this world that makes
living worthwhile?"

Death thought about it.
"Cats," he said eventually, "Cats are nice."

-Terry Pratchett, 'Sourcery'

"MarAzul" wrote in message
news:daVRb.6576$QJ3.2479@fed1read04...
Okay, so when I first got into the hobby as a kid the
standard was 1 fish
per gallon. When I got back into 2-3 years ago I find now
it goes by the
actual size of the fish. If I have it figured out
correctly by this
standard, in a 10 gallon tank I could have: 10 1 inch
fish, 5 2 inch fish,
etc.. Is that about right? Because this leads me to my
next question.. Where
do the decorations figure into that equation? I mean, if
you have a heavily
planted tank, it would seem like you couldn't have as many
fish. Same thing
if the majority of your tank space was taken up by
rocks/caves, etc...

Anyway, I'm just curious and my brain won't let me sleep
when it's like
this..

Mar

I go by surface area more than by gallons, but in your case
you would presumably consider only the actual amount of
water in the tank. Decorations, gravel, etc. reduce the
space for water.

Here's a different way to stocking you might find helpful.
I don't know how the experts feel about this system of
calculating stocking, but I prefer it.

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-us.htm

Gail

"MarAzul" wrote in message
news:daVRb.6576$QJ3.2479@fed1read04...
Okay, so when I first got into the hobby as a kid the standard was 1
fish
per gallon. When I got back into 2-3 years ago I find now it goes by
the
actual size of the fish. If I have it figured out correctly by this
standard, in a 10 gallon tank I could have: 10 1 inch fish, 5 2 inch
fish,
etc.. Is that about right? Because this leads me to my next question..
Where
do the decorations figure into that equation? I mean, if you have a
heavily
planted tank, it would seem like you couldn't have as many fish. Same
thing
if the majority of your tank space was taken up by rocks/caves, etc...

Anyway, I'm just curious and my brain won't let me sleep when it's like
this..

Mar

The 1"(without the tail) per gallon guideline applies loosely to medium
bodied fish, principally for biological loading. Smaller fish (ie:Neons)
or larger bodied fish (ie: Oscars) don't fit the guideline. The
guideline is actually more properly applied to the fish's mass, rather
than it's length, but estimating grams of weight would be futile ;~).
The most relevant method, (as it's a biological load calculation) is to
look at the amount of food going into a tank. Two fish fed twice a day
would have the same biological load as 4 fish fed once a day. This
loading guideline let you pick the right filter, because the manufacturer
assumes that you are around the guideline, so filters are sized to the
approximate waste generated by a normal fish-load being fed 2 or 3 times
a day. Extra fish can often be compensated for by extra filtration.

The cautions are i) territory (some fish like to be crowded, others not)
and ii) your safety margin in the event of a power failure. A crowded
tank will exhaust the available oxygen more quickly, and without
aeration, the fish could begin dying off.

Using the surface area to decide the number of fish is probably the
oldest method, based on the rate of oxygenation at the surface (more
surface = more oxygen replenishment), however with modern 24/7 aeration,
this guideline has become less useful. For non-filtered tanks, the
surface calculation is critical. There is also the widely different
metabolism of fish. A very active Silver Dollar will use 4 times more
oxygen than a similarly sized pleco, who can actually gulp air for
oxygen.

Substrate, rocks, plants, decorations etc take away from the swimming
area and the total volume of water. If territorial requirements are your
constraint, it might increase your fish load. If swimming area is your
constraint, then it reduces your fish load. If you are using surface
calculation, it has no effect (on paper). If you are using volume as
your constraint, then everything except the plants reduces your fish load
(plants are O2 neutral, but biologically positive, as they remove waste
products from the fish).

confused yet ? ;~)

Two things which will maximize your fish load a
i) layering the fish, top-feeders, mid-water and then bottom-feeders, &
ii) respect their territorial requirements, (maximum load is usually
achieved with a species tank of community fish)

So, generally, you can have more fish, by having less species, and then
more of each (ie: schoolers, shoalers, community fish), or until you hit
the territorial ceiling.

You should be able to sleep now, if I haven't already put you to sleep
;~)

NetMax

Subject: Fish per gallons?
From: "NetMax"
Date: 1/28/2004 5:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Not copying post)
Very nicely done NetMax!

So basically, what you're say is that it varies.. Great info.. thanks..


Mar
------------------------------------------------
"I meant," said Ipslore, bitterly,"what is there in this world that makes
living worthwhile?"

Death thought about it.
"Cats," he said eventually, "Cats are nice."

-Terry Pratchett, 'Sourcery'

The 1"(without the tail) per gallon guideline applies loosely to medium
bodied fish, principally for biological loading. Smaller fish (ie:Neons)
or larger bodied fish (ie: Oscars) don't fit the guideline. The
guideline is actually more properly applied to the fish's mass, rather
than it's length, but estimating grams of weight would be futile ;~).
The most relevant method, (as it's a biological load calculation) is to
look at the amount of food going into a tank. Two fish fed twice a day
would have the same biological load as 4 fish fed once a day. This
loading guideline let you pick the right filter, because the manufacturer
assumes that you are around the guideline, so filters are sized to the
approximate waste generated by a normal fish-load being fed 2 or 3 times
a day. Extra fish can often be compensated for by extra filtration.

The cautions are i) territory (some fish like to be crowded, others not)
and ii) your safety margin in the event of a power failure. A crowded
tank will exhaust the available oxygen more quickly, and without
aeration, the fish could begin dying off.

Using the surface area to decide the number of fish is probably the
oldest method, based on the rate of oxygenation at the surface (more
surface = more oxygen replenishment), however with modern 24/7 aeration,
this guideline has become less useful. For non-filtered tanks, the
surface calculation is critical. There is also the widely different
metabolism of fish. A very active Silver Dollar will use 4 times more
oxygen than a similarly sized pleco, who can actually gulp air for
oxygen.

Substrate, rocks, plants, decorations etc take away from the swimming
area and the total volume of water. If territorial requirements are your
constraint, it might increase your fish load. If swimming area is your
constraint, then it reduces your fish load. If you are using surface
calculation, it has no effect (on paper). If you are using volume as
your constraint, then everything except the plants reduces your fish load
(plants are O2 neutral, but biologically positive, as they remove waste
products from the fish).

confused yet ? ;~)

Two things which will maximize your fish load a
i) layering the fish, top-feeders, mid-water and then bottom-feeders, &
ii) respect their territorial requirements, (maximum load is usually
achieved with a species tank of community fish)

So, generally, you can have more fish, by having less species, and then
more of each (ie: schoolers, shoalers, community fish), or until you hit
the territorial ceiling.

You should be able to sleep now, if I haven't already put you to sleep
;~)

NetMax

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:37:20 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:


"MarAzul" wrote in message
news:daVRb.6576$QJ3.2479@fed1read04...
Okay, so when I first got into the hobby as a kid the standard was 1
fish
per gallon. When I got back into 2-3 years ago I find now it goes by
the
actual size of the fish. If I have it figured out correctly by this
standard, in a 10 gallon tank I could have: 10 1 inch fish, 5 2 inch
fish,
etc.. Is that about right? Because this leads me to my next question..
Where
do the decorations figure into that equation? I mean, if you have a
heavily
planted tank, it would seem like you couldn't have as many fish. Same
thing
if the majority of your tank space was taken up by rocks/caves, etc...

Anyway, I'm just curious and my brain won't let me sleep when it's like
this..

Mar

The 1"(without the tail) per gallon guideline applies loosely to medium
bodied fish, principally for biological loading. Smaller fish (ie:Neons)
or larger bodied fish (ie: Oscars) don't fit the guideline. The
guideline is actually more properly applied to the fish's mass, rather
than it's length, but estimating grams of weight would be futile ;~).
The most relevant method, (as it's a biological load calculation) is to
look at the amount of food going into a tank. Two fish fed twice a day
would have the same biological load as 4 fish fed once a day. This
loading guideline let you pick the right filter, because the manufacturer
assumes that you are around the guideline, so filters are sized to the
approximate waste generated by a normal fish-load being fed 2 or 3 times
a day. Extra fish can often be compensated for by extra filtration.

The cautions are i) territory (some fish like to be crowded, others not)
and ii) your safety margin in the event of a power failure. A crowded
tank will exhaust the available oxygen more quickly, and without
aeration, the fish could begin dying off.

Using the surface area to decide the number of fish is probably the
oldest method, based on the rate of oxygenation at the surface (more
surface = more oxygen replenishment), however with modern 24/7 aeration,
this guideline has become less useful. For non-filtered tanks, the
surface calculation is critical. There is also the widely different
metabolism of fish. A very active Silver Dollar will use 4 times more
oxygen than a similarly sized pleco, who can actually gulp air for
oxygen.

Substrate, rocks, plants, decorations etc take away from the swimming
area and the total volume of water. If territorial requirements are your
constraint, it might increase your fish load. If swimming area is your
constraint, then it reduces your fish load. If you are using surface
calculation, it has no effect (on paper). If you are using volume as
your constraint, then everything except the plants reduces your fish load
(plants are O2 neutral, but biologically positive, as they remove waste
products from the fish).

confused yet ? ;~)

Two things which will maximize your fish load a
i) layering the fish, top-feeders, mid-water and then bottom-feeders, &
ii) respect their territorial requirements, (maximum load is usually
achieved with a species tank of community fish)

So, generally, you can have more fish, by having less species, and then
more of each (ie: schoolers, shoalers, community fish), or until you hit
the territorial ceiling.

You should be able to sleep now, if I haven't already put you to sleep
;~)

NetMax



Nice by the book write up.

I have 5 tanks: 75, 29, 10, 10, 10. All run over the 1 fish per
gallon rule and well over 1 fish inch/gallon. No adjustment for sand,
ornaments, rocks.

I have 14 species of fish and they do normally stratify. All of the
tanks are healthy.

I am entertained by how collegial fish can be. Sometimes, especially
in the 75 gallon tank, they will swarm up and down in a corner leaving
most of the tank void of fish. Other times they practically disappear
into the closely planted bottom and then they do usually disperse and
the tank then "looks" heavily populated.

I learned the rules, worried as I "over stocked" by accident.
Finally, I saw the fish weren't worried and seemed very content. I am
trying to follow their example. g I have been overstocked for about
6 months.

My next worry are the Clown Loaches and Siamese Algae Eaters getting
too big for my tanks. At least they grow slowly.

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:37:20 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:


"MarAzul" wrote in message
news:daVRb.6576$QJ3.2479@fed1read04...

snipped my long bla bla on fish-loading

You should be able to sleep now, if I haven't already put you to sleep
;~)

NetMax



Nice by the book write up.

Hmmm, was that a compliment? I write most of this stuff from memory &
experience, and when I'm put to the task, I will pull out reference books
to support me.

I have 5 tanks: 75, 29, 10, 10, 10. All run over the 1 fish per
gallon rule and well over 1 fish inch/gallon. No adjustment for sand,
ornaments, rocks.

I have 14 species of fish and they do normally stratify. All of the
tanks are healthy.

I am entertained by how collegial fish can be. Sometimes, especially
in the 75 gallon tank, they will swarm up and down in a corner leaving
most of the tank void of fish. Other times they practically disappear
into the closely planted bottom and then they do usually disperse and
the tank then "looks" heavily populated.

I learned the rules, worried as I "over stocked" by accident.
Finally, I saw the fish weren't worried and seemed very content. I am
trying to follow their example. g I have been overstocked for about
6 months.

My next worry are the Clown Loaches and Siamese Algae Eaters getting
too big for my tanks. At least they grow slowly.

When someone has a working recipe, my strategy is to keep my mouth shut
and listen (my ability to learn new things drops exponentially every time
I open my mouth too long ;~).

Maybe we need yet another guideline ;~), this one by hobbyist experience:
For new hobbyist with tanks running less than 3 months, you are allowed
1" per 3 US gallons.
For hobbyists with tanks less than a year (but already cycled), 1" per
gal.
For hobbyists beyond 1 year, no guideline. Hopefully, by this point, you
have researched enough to make your own determinations, (and .... it's
very difficult to get established hobbyists to change their ways anyway
;~), all you can do is make suggestions. )

Maybe we should write a test, to graduate ppl from 3 months to the first
year fish-loading rate? *humour(?)*

ps: my 'suggestions' for anyone overstocking a overfilter, 2 filters
are better than 1, never clean both filters at the same time, and as Dick
said, watch the fish.
cheers
NetMax

"Dick" wrote in message
...
snip

I learned the rules, worried as I "over stocked" by accident.
Finally, I saw the fish weren't worried and seemed very content. I am
trying to follow their example. g I have been overstocked for about
6 months.

My next worry are the Clown Loaches and Siamese Algae Eaters getting
too big for my tanks. At least they grow slowly.

My tanks are always overstocked according to the "book rules".
Never had a problem but i indeed do not mix a lot different species of fish.
It helps that i do a 20% water change every week and have a filter that is
"heavier" than i normally should be for the tank size and i also have
a lot of plants.

Subject: Fish per gallons?
From: "flupke"
Date: 1/29/2004 9:49 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: t


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
snip

I learned the rules, worried as I "over stocked" by accident.
Finally, I saw the fish weren't worried and seemed very content. I am
trying to follow their example. g I have been overstocked for about
6 months.

My next worry are the Clown Loaches and Siamese Algae Eaters getting
too big for my tanks. At least they grow slowly.

My tanks are always overstocked according to the "book rules".
Never had a problem but i indeed do not mix a lot different species of fish.
It helps that i do a 20% water change every week and have a filter that is
"heavier" than i normally should be for the tank size and i also have
a lot of plants.




The weekly water changes and size of your filter *are* the reasons why you are
able to do this. = )

My tanks are always overstocked according to the "book rules". Never had
a problem but i indeed do not mix a lot different species of fish. It
helps that i do a 20% water change every week and have a filter that is
"heavier" than i normally should be for the tank size and i also have a
lot of plants.

Mine are overstocked too. And like you have a lot of plants and do
weekly water changes. I change 50% once to twice a week on my fresh
water tanks and the only real use I have for a filter is water movement.

This is my recipe for a healthy tank but as always YMMV.

Vicki

Visit me on line at http://shamrock4u.250free.com