bettas in plastic cups

With all the betta discussion lately, can someone tell me about bettas
in plastic cups? Why are they offered for sale this way? The losses must
be great and the fish don't look attractive for purchase.

Also, when do the fish go into the plastic cups? Is it for transport, or
are they raised in there? Thanks for any information.

Steve

Steve wrote:
With all the betta discussion lately, can someone tell me about bettas
in plastic cups? Why are they offered for sale this way? The losses must
be great and the fish don't look attractive for purchase.

Also, when do the fish go into the plastic cups? Is it for transport, or
are they raised in there? Thanks for any information.

Steve


IMO if you are buying any fish you need to provide them with adequate
and suitable accomodation as you would any pet.....I would never keep a
fish such as a betta in anything other than a heated, filtered 5 gall
(UK) tank....it is not possible to buy anything smaller at the reputable
places I shop....that being said I do understand that bettas can be kept
successfully in smaller, filtered, heated tanks quite happily - although
I would think that probably a 2 gall would be the minimum....anything
less and without the adequate provisions for what is a tropical fish IMO
is cruel on a long term basis - afterall they need room to swim. Now
obviously when breeding bettas a 2 gall tank for each of the fry is
impractical which is why I believe most reputable breeders would go for
a heated room therefore ensuring that the fish are kept at the right
temps and smaller containers with more frequent water changes - in most
cases, other than the very committed hobbyiest breeding these fish is a
business and it is in the breeders interest for the fish to survive...at
least til they hit the shops...

Now, I don't breed bettas, although I do have two males that both live
in their 20L (5UK gall) tanks....I would never consider keeping them in
a cup or small bowl...to me, it just doesn't seem right....

There is a trend, (horrible market), for selling bettas in vases...they
are condemed to living in a small vase with a non-aquatic plant taking
up most of the air space (so they had limited real air to breath). I
believe the advice was that they would live on the plant roots - but
bettas are carnivorous....the idea as far as I can see is that these
fish were treated as ornaments rather than live animals....as expendable
as a bunch of flowers....what you are describing very much smacks of
this type of mentality...."look you can own a fish that can survive in a
cup" - absolute rubbish - and by your question I can very much see that
you are of the same opinion....

All of this is based on my research, what I have heard from other more
experienced betta keepers, the contentment of my bettas in their 5 gall
tanks and a gut feeling that it is just so, so very wrong to provide any
living creature with cramped conditions where they just survive rather
than have any quality of life....hey, ho JMO

Gill

Gill Passman wrote:
Steve wrote:

With all the betta discussion lately, can someone tell me about bettas
in plastic cups? Why are they offered for sale this way? The losses
must be great and the fish don't look attractive for purchase.

Also, when do the fish go into the plastic cups? Is it for transport,
or are they raised in there? Thanks for any information.

Steve



IMO if you are buying any fish you need to provide them with adequate
and suitable accomodation as you would any pet.....I would never keep a
fish such as a betta in anything other than a heated, filtered 5 gall
(UK) tank....it is not possible to buy anything smaller at the reputable
places I shop....that being said I do understand that bettas can be kept
successfully in smaller, filtered, heated tanks quite happily - although
I would think that probably a 2 gall would be the minimum....anything
less and without the adequate provisions for what is a tropical fish IMO
is cruel on a long term basis - afterall they need room to swim. Now
obviously when breeding bettas a 2 gall tank for each of the fry is
impractical which is why I believe most reputable breeders would go for
a heated room therefore ensuring that the fish are kept at the right
temps and smaller containers with more frequent water changes - in most
cases, other than the very committed hobbyiest breeding these fish is a
business and it is in the breeders interest for the fish to survive...at
least til they hit the shops...

Now, I don't breed bettas, although I do have two males that both live
in their 20L (5UK gall) tanks....I would never consider keeping them in
a cup or small bowl...to me, it just doesn't seem right....

There is a trend, (horrible market), for selling bettas in vases...they
are condemed to living in a small vase with a non-aquatic plant taking
up most of the air space (so they had limited real air to breath). I
believe the advice was that they would live on the plant roots - but
bettas are carnivorous....the idea as far as I can see is that these
fish were treated as ornaments rather than live animals....as expendable
as a bunch of flowers....what you are describing very much smacks of
this type of mentality...."look you can own a fish that can survive in a
cup" - absolute rubbish - and by your question I can very much see that
you are of the same opinion....

All of this is based on my research, what I have heard from other more
experienced betta keepers, the contentment of my bettas in their 5 gall
tanks and a gut feeling that it is just so, so very wrong to provide any
living creature with cramped conditions where they just survive rather
than have any quality of life....hey, ho JMO

Gill



Gill,
Thanks for sharing your betta experiences. I've had 3 male bettas in
long history of keeping aquariums, and two lasted less than a year for
me. The last one lasted perhaps 1.5 year, and it was in a planted,
heated, unfiltered 2 gallon plastic aquarium.

Stores housing/ selling bettas in plastic cups is a trend here in
Canada; its virtually impossible to find bettas in large aquariums in
the stores. All the betta discussion here lately prompted my
question. I'm really quite curious about the reasons behind plastic cup
bettas, although I think the fish stores expect customers to move their
bettas to something larger than a cup once they get home.
Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks for sharing your betta experiences. I've had 3 male bettas in long
history of keeping aquariums, and two lasted less than a year for me. The
last one lasted perhaps 1.5 year, and it was in a planted, heated,
unfiltered 2 gallon plastic aquarium.

## Exactly my point. Housing them in a 1 to 2 gallon heated (and filtered)
tank is no guarantee they'll live out their full 4+ years. You are not the
first one to have this experience with bettas.

Stores housing/ selling bettas in plastic cups is a trend here in Canada;
its virtually impossible to find bettas in large aquariums in the stores.

## This is true. The better stores have those divided filtered tanks or 1
qt bowls to display them in. Most stores just leave them in the filthy bags
or put them in tiny ivy bowls - which they fail to clean or top-off.

All the betta discussion here lately prompted my
question. I'm really quite curious about the reasons behind plastic cup
bettas, although I think the fish stores expect customers to move their
bettas to something larger than a cup once they get home.

## I don't think they care as long as you have the money to pay for the
fish.........
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Steve wrote:
Gill Passman wrote:

Steve wrote:

With all the betta discussion lately, can someone tell me about
bettas in plastic cups? Why are they offered for sale this way? The
losses must be great and the fish don't look attractive for purchase.

Also, when do the fish go into the plastic cups? Is it for transport,
or are they raised in there? Thanks for any information.

Steve




IMO if you are buying any fish you need to provide them with adequate
and suitable accomodation as you would any pet.....I would never keep
a fish such as a betta in anything other than a heated, filtered 5
gall (UK) tank....it is not possible to buy anything smaller at the
reputable places I shop....that being said I do understand that bettas
can be kept successfully in smaller, filtered, heated tanks quite
happily - although I would think that probably a 2 gall would be the
minimum....anything less and without the adequate provisions for what
is a tropical fish IMO is cruel on a long term basis - afterall they
need room to swim. Now obviously when breeding bettas a 2 gall tank
for each of the fry is impractical which is why I believe most
reputable breeders would go for a heated room therefore ensuring that
the fish are kept at the right temps and smaller containers with more
frequent water changes - in most cases, other than the very committed
hobbyiest breeding these fish is a business and it is in the breeders
interest for the fish to survive...at least til they hit the shops...

Now, I don't breed bettas, although I do have two males that both live
in their 20L (5UK gall) tanks....I would never consider keeping them
in a cup or small bowl...to me, it just doesn't seem right....

There is a trend, (horrible market), for selling bettas in
vases...they are condemed to living in a small vase with a non-aquatic
plant taking up most of the air space (so they had limited real air to
breath). I believe the advice was that they would live on the plant
roots - but bettas are carnivorous....the idea as far as I can see is
that these fish were treated as ornaments rather than live
animals....as expendable as a bunch of flowers....what you are
describing very much smacks of this type of mentality...."look you can
own a fish that can survive in a cup" - absolute rubbish - and by your
question I can very much see that you are of the same opinion....

All of this is based on my research, what I have heard from other more
experienced betta keepers, the contentment of my bettas in their 5
gall tanks and a gut feeling that it is just so, so very wrong to
provide any living creature with cramped conditions where they just
survive rather than have any quality of life....hey, ho JMO

Gill



Gill,
Thanks for sharing your betta experiences. I've had 3 male bettas in
long history of keeping aquariums, and two lasted less than a year for
me. The last one lasted perhaps 1.5 year, and it was in a planted,
heated, unfiltered 2 gallon plastic aquarium.

Stores housing/ selling bettas in plastic cups is a trend here in
Canada; its virtually impossible to find bettas in large aquariums in
the stores. All the betta discussion here lately prompted my
question. I'm really quite curious about the reasons behind plastic cup
bettas, although I think the fish stores expect customers to move their
bettas to something larger than a cup once they get home.
Steve

Hi Steve,

I've never seen bettas on sale in the UK other than in tanks....maybe
it's the places I go to....

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
news:4385867f$0$38041
I've never seen bettas on sale in the UK other than in tanks....maybe it's
the places I go to....
===========================
Here in the USA most are sold in either those small cups or the new larger
16 oz. size.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..
With all the betta discussion lately, can someone tell me about bettas in
plastic cups? Why are they offered for sale this way?

## Because they can't mix bettas together in one bag as they do the other
types of fish. It's the most economical way to ship them. There doesn't
seem to be an laws or rules regarding the care and welfare of fish. There
should be but there isn't from what I can see. The real abuse comes in when
they reach the stores or pet-shops where they are not properly cared for or
fed. They sit in their filthy water until it evaporates and they die, or
the toxic waste in the small container kills them. Wal*Mart stores carry
them in much larger containers but they're just as filthy and foul smelling.
The female I bought a few weeks ago was literally in a cesspool of filth.

The losses must
be great and the fish don't look attractive for purchase.

## This is true in some chain-stores where the workers are either clueless
or couldn't care less. About 10% of them were already dead in a store I
visited yesterday. Some were already decomposed in their filthy containers.
Talk about cruelty. Those in PetsMart were in pretty good shape but in very
small cups.

Also, when do the fish go into the plastic cups? Is it for transport, or
are they raised in there? Thanks for any information.

## That would depend on what breeder they got them from. They must be
separated at some point to keep the finnage from being marred so the
breeders have to house them in something. I'm sure the big breeders have
some type of flow-through systems now. No one is changing the water in
thousands of small containers or jars. Those I saw years ago utilized all
types of glass containers. Most held no more than 2 cups of water. They
were "bagged" the day they were taken to the stores. The stores in that
area put them in those small ivy bowls that hold about 8 oz of water. If
the betta was lucky his new owner put him in something larger.
Unfortunately I saw people buy the same tiny ivy bowls to keep them in - no
gravel, no plants. I always felt the fish was going to his death. But I've
had people tell me they had bettas live several years in such small bowls.
Now I believe most bettas are imported. So they're probably in those small
cups for a few days by the time they reach the pet stores. One store here
puts the bettas in a filtered betta tank that has partitions and a
flow-through filter system of some kind.
I stopped breeding them back in the late 60s because there wasn't enough of
a market, nor did I get enough per fish to make it worth while, plus I had a
full time job - so I gave it up. I enjoyed it while I did it though. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

With all the betta discussion lately, can someone tell me about bettas
in plastic cups? Why are they offered for sale this way?


## Because they can't mix bettas together in one bag as they do the
other types of fish. It's the most economical way to ship them. There
doesn't seem to be an laws or rules regarding the care and welfare of
fish. There should be but there isn't from what I can see. The real
abuse comes in when they reach the stores or pet-shops where they are
not properly cared for or fed. They sit in their filthy water until it
evaporates and they die, or the toxic waste in the small container kills
them. Wal*Mart stores carry them in much larger containers but they're
just as filthy and foul smelling. The female I bought a few weeks ago
was literally in a cesspool of filth.

The losses must

be great and the fish don't look attractive for purchase.


## This is true in some chain-stores where the workers are either
clueless or couldn't care less. About 10% of them were already dead in
a store I visited yesterday. Some were already decomposed in their
filthy containers. Talk about cruelty. Those in PetsMart were in pretty
good shape but in very small cups.

Also, when do the fish go into the plastic cups? Is it for transport,
or are they raised in there? Thanks for any information.


## That would depend on what breeder they got them from. They must be
separated at some point to keep the finnage from being marred so the
breeders have to house them in something. I'm sure the big breeders
have some type of flow-through systems now. No one is changing the
water in thousands of small containers or jars. Those I saw years ago
utilized all types of glass containers. Most held no more than 2 cups
of water. They were "bagged" the day they were taken to the stores.
The stores in that area put them in those small ivy bowls that hold
about 8 oz of water. If the betta was lucky his new owner put him in
something larger. Unfortunately I saw people buy the same tiny ivy bowls
to keep them in - no gravel, no plants. I always felt the fish was
going to his death. But I've had people tell me they had bettas live
several years in such small bowls. Now I believe most bettas are
imported. So they're probably in those small cups for a few days by the
time they reach the pet stores. One store here puts the bettas in a
filtered betta tank that has partitions and a flow-through filter system
of some kind.
I stopped breeding them back in the late 60s because there wasn't enough
of a market, nor did I get enough per fish to make it worth while, plus
I had a full time job - so I gave it up. I enjoyed it while I did it
though. :-)

Thanks, that's informative. As mentioned to another poster, I haven't
had great success with bettas. The single male bettas I kept in approx
15 gal community aquariums with other small fish each lasted about 9mo
to 1 year. The one I recently kept by itself in a heated, planted,
unfiltered 2 gallon aquarium lasted about 1.5 years. This raises a
couple of questions:

Are bettas relatively old when shipped, and expected to live only
another year?

Are bettas healthier and happier when kept by themselves?

Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon
aquarium? I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

Steve

i keep mine in a 120 with tiger barbs and a few other aggressive fish.
the key is to grow plants to the top so they always have safe spots
and can swim unnoticed. occasionally when exploring you may see your
betta rush back to his plants. until the plants grow in you may hang a
large ordiment from the top, which also gives your betta good
protection in community tanks.

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:15:11 -0500, Steve wrote:

Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon
aquarium? I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

Steve


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dddd wrote:
i keep mine in a 120 with tiger barbs and a few other aggressive fish.
the key is to grow plants to the top so they always have safe spots
and can swim unnoticed. occasionally when exploring you may see your
betta rush back to his plants. until the plants grow in you may hang a
large ordiment from the top, which also gives your betta good
protection in community tanks.


Thanks. My giant Val grow all over the tank surface, so maybe I'll try a
betta and see how it goes. The only problem is, I have nowhere suitable
to put the betta if it doesn't work out. The 2 gal aquarium is now a
snail-raising tank and too stinky for fish .

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:15:11 -0500, Steve wrote:


Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon
aquarium? I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

Steve



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