Hurt Betta and Goldfish , Help !!!

I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two gallon tank. I thought the betta would only be aggressive towards other bettas. They were doing fine for almost a month and then when I woke up this morning I noticed my goldfish had red spots on his body and my bettas fins had been nipped all over the place. It basically looks like the webbing is gone from the long fins and what is left are more like pink strands of fin. Can this heal? How can I tell if there is other damage? What should I do about my goldfish? So far I have put them in separate bowls, but I am pretty new to fish keeping and dont know how to help my betta, she looks worse off than the goldfish.

Help me!
Cassie

"Cassie" wrote in message
...

I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided
that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two
gallon tank.

## I never trust bettas. They can turn on other fish in a heartbeat. All
my bettas live alone. As for goldfish - the rule is 10 gallons per fish
since they get quite large if healthy. They're big eaters and pass a lot of
waste. A 2 gallon tank is only suitable for a few guppies or a betta.

I thought the betta would only be aggressive towards other
bettas.

## I have seen them turn aggressive against tankmates they'd been with for
weeks, maybe months.

They were doing fine for almost a month and then when I woke up
this morning I noticed my goldfish had red spots on his body and my
bettas fins had been nipped all over the place. It basically looks like
the webbing is gone from the long fins and what is left are more like
pink strands of fin. Can this heal?

## If he's healthy and the water is really clean. If infection sets in it
can die.

How can I tell if there is other
damage? What should I do about my goldfish?

## Buy a tank large enough to keep goldfish. If you have 2 then get a 20
gallon tank, if 3 get a 30L tank and so on.

So far I have put them in
separate bowls,

## They will suffocate in bowls unless they have some type of filter and
aeration. Please buy a tank for them or find them another home.

but I am pretty new to fish keeping and dont know how
to help my betta, she looks worse off than the goldfish.

## You can Google goldfish and bettas. There are thousands of webpages to
learn their needs and how to best meet them.

My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Cassie wrote:
I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided
that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two
gallon tank. I thought the betta would only be aggressive towards other
bettas. They were doing fine for almost a month and then when I woke up
this morning I noticed my goldfish had red spots on his body and my
bettas fins had been nipped all over the place. It basically looks like
the webbing is gone from the long fins and what is left are more like
pink strands of fin. Can this heal? How can I tell if there is other
damage? What should I do about my goldfish? So far I have put them in
separate bowls, but I am pretty new to fish keeping and dont know how
to help my betta, she looks worse off than the goldfish.

Help me!
Cassie


Fins can heal as long as the flesh at the base of the fin is not hurt.
There is not likely any internal damage to your fish and separating them
was exactly the right thing to do. Both of your fish simply need very
clean water and good food to heal. Clean water is a challenge in small
bowls so you will need to do a lot of water changes and avoid leaving
any uneaten food in the bottom.

To help avoid finrot or fungus, you might want to use a mild antiseptic
like Bettafix or Melafix for the next week. Also, add 1 tsp/gallon of
dissolved aquarium salt, sea salt, or pickling salt to the bowls to help
them recover. Keep an eye on the goldfish to be sure he's not gasping
at the top of the water and has enough oxygen, and add an airstone if he
has any trouble.

Hope your fish make it OK.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Originally Posted by Koi-lo

"Cassie" wrote in message
...

I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided
that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two
gallon tank.

## I never trust bettas. They can turn on other fish in a heartbeat. All
my bettas live alone. As for goldfish - the rule is 10 gallons per fish
since they get quite large if healthy. They're big eaters and pass a lot of
waste. A 2 gallon tank is only suitable for a few guppies or a betta.

I thought the betta would only be aggressive towards other
bettas.

## I have seen them turn aggressive against tankmates they'd been with for
weeks, maybe months.

They were doing fine for almost a month and then when I woke up
this morning I noticed my goldfish had red spots on his body and my
bettas fins had been nipped all over the place. It basically looks like
the webbing is gone from the long fins and what is left are more like
pink strands of fin. Can this heal?

## If he's healthy and the water is really clean. If infection sets in it
can die.

How can I tell if there is other
damage? What should I do about my goldfish?

## Buy a tank large enough to keep goldfish. If you have 2 then get a 20
gallon tank, if 3 get a 30L tank and so on.

So far I have put them in
separate bowls,

## They will suffocate in bowls unless they have some type of filter and
aeration. Please buy a tank for them or find them another home.

but I am pretty new to fish keeping and dont know how
to help my betta, she looks worse off than the goldfish.

## You can Google goldfish and bettas. There are thousands of webpages to
learn their needs and how to best meet them.

My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

***Update***

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate you replying so quickly. My betta fish is doing much better. I was wondering if the betta also needs to bubbling air filter.. Obviously the goldfish did. i didnt know that. he had been fine for the past 3 weeks. When i came home from work, he was gasping for air, never had done it before. Before I had time to put in an air filter he died. I am still upset about it, but now I know. No more goldfish until I have room for @ least a 10 gallon tank.I bought some salt to put in the water to assist w/ the healing. Thanks again!

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Hash: SHA256

Cassie wrote:
***Update***

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate you replying so quickly.
My betta fish is doing much better. I was wondering if the betta also
needs to bubbling air filter.. Obviously the goldfish did. i didnt know
that. he had been fine for the past 3 weeks. When i came home from work,
he was gasping for air, never had done it before. Before I had time to
put in an air filter he died. I am still upset about it, but now I
know. No more goldfish until I have room for @ least a 10 gallon tank.I
bought some salt to put in the water to assist w/ the healing. Thanks
again!

I'm sorry to hear about your goldfish.

Bettas breathe air and can live fine in perfectly still water. In fact,
they prefer water without too much movement so they can maintain their
bubblenests. I think two gallon tanks are perfect for bettas, although
some people like to give a betta more room so it can swim around.

- --
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
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Koi-lo wrote:
"Cassie" wrote in message
...

I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided
that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two
gallon tank.

## I never trust bettas. They can turn on other fish in a heartbeat. All
my bettas live alone. As for goldfish - the rule is 10 gallons per fish
since they get quite large if healthy. They're big eaters and pass a lot of
waste. A 2 gallon tank is only suitable for a few guppies or a betta.

I thought the betta would only be aggressive towards other
bettas.

## I have seen them turn aggressive against tankmates they'd been with for
weeks, maybe months.

They were doing fine for almost a month and then when I woke up
this morning I noticed my goldfish had red spots on his body and my
bettas fins had been nipped all over the place. It basically looks like
the webbing is gone from the long fins and what is left are more like
pink strands of fin. Can this heal?

## If he's healthy and the water is really clean. If infection sets in it
can die.

How can I tell if there is other
damage? What should I do about my goldfish?

## Buy a tank large enough to keep goldfish. If you have 2 then get a 20
gallon tank, if 3 get a 30L tank and so on.

So far I have put them in
separate bowls,

## They will suffocate in bowls unless they have some type of filter and
aeration. Please buy a tank for them or find them another home.

but I am pretty new to fish keeping and dont know how
to help my betta, she looks worse off than the goldfish.

## You can Google goldfish and bettas. There are thousands of webpages to
learn their needs and how to best meet them.

My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
Koi-lo wrote:
## I never trust bettas. They can turn on other fish in a heartbeat. All
my bettas live alone.

You simply do not understand Bettas.
Bettas don't just "turn" on tank mates. You simply didn't understand
the "why".
(back ground on myself....I have been a Betta fancier for nearly 28 yrs
and have bred them for many of those years)
Each Betta has an individual personality. These fish are aware of their
surroundings too. They really do know who their keeper is. That wiggle
dance they do every time you walk into the room isn't begging for food
all the time. They're also trying to get your attention.
Bettas are also socialble fish. They don't want to be solitary.
Bettas have a hierarchy and right there that shows you that these fish
are not solitary by nature.
Rarely you will find an overly aggressvie Betta that must be kept
isolated, but the majority are fine in a community tank with suitable
tank mates for the Betta, as they are usually the ones getting nipped,
not the other way around.
Many times a male that is put into a community tank may huff and puff
at first, but usually they calm down right away as soon as they realize
these other fish aren't going to harm them.
Many times Bettas that are kept solitary become listless and bored.
Some even go into depression without a flare buddy or tank mates.
I hope you are keeping your solitary males next to each other so that
they can flare with each other.
Another common myth is that they will be stressed too much and die if
housed next to other males permantly. It just isn't so.
They actually need the exercise and stimulation.
The largest myth out there regarding Bettas is that they *prefer* small
tanks without filtration. Absolutely untrue.
Just because they can survive in a small, unfiltered tank doesn't mean
that they enjoy or prefer it, and don't succumb to the affects of dirty
water like regular fish do.
Bettas, like every fish in the world, benefit from filtration.
In smaller tanks (minimum 1gal) their water should be changed 100% 1-2
times weekly in order for them to not suffer from high nitrite/nitrate
and ammonia levels, just like other fish.
Because Bettas can breathe surface air with their labyrinth organ
people mistakingly believe that this means they prefer to live in small
spaces and don't suffer the ill affects of high ammonia or
nirtite/nitrates levels. I'll never understand why folks think this
way.
The myth about them prefering small bowls because they live in small
mud puddles in the wild makes me want to choke the person saying it.
Folks don't undertsand that Rice paddy fileds are NOT small mud
puddles. They're usually about 18" deep and the size of a lake or other
larger body of water.
These are fed fresh water constantly, not stagnant mud puddles like
some would have you beleive.
Nature gave them a labyrinth organ so that they could *survive* the dry
seasons. This is where the myth of them prefering it comes into play.
They can *survive* in tiny, shallow puddles until the rains come again.
Another myth is that the males fight to the death.
In the wild, they hardly ever rip each other to shreds.
They posture, flare, nip and chase. The loser simply swims away.
In a tank they have no place to go. The loser isn't "swimming away" so
the winner continues and then chunks are taken out of the fins, as well
as the body.
The loser usually dies from it's injuries, not that they fought to the
death.
Bettas definately need a certain amount of territory for them selves.
If a tank isn't large enough to house either a male or female Betta
with other tank mates than it feels threatened and will pursue the
"intruder".
Sometimes the tank simply doesn't have enough decorations or plants to
establish proper territories, and hence the Betta feels threatented and
goes after the tank mate.
So please, Koi-Lo, research a bit more about Bettas. They'll be better
for it, and you can also then give out proper advice about them as
well.

Cassie wrote:
I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided
that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two
gallon tank. I thought the betta would only be aggressive towards other
bettas. They were doing fine for almost a month and then when I woke up
this morning I noticed my goldfish had red spots on his body and my
bettas fins had been nipped all over the place. It basically looks like
the webbing is gone from the long fins and what is left are more like
pink strands of fin. Can this heal? How can I tell if there is other
damage? What should I do about my goldfish? So far I have put them in
separate bowls, but I am pretty new to fish keeping and dont know how
to help my betta, she looks worse off than the goldfish.

Help me!
Cassie


--
Cassie

Cassie wrote:
I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided
that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two
gallon tank.

You should never house Goldfish with tropical fish.
Bascially, only Goldfish can be kept with Goldfish. DoJo loaches are
about the only other tank mates that can go with them other than other
Goldies.
Bettas (pronounced "bet-uh") need to be kept in tanks a minimum of a
gallon, but need heated water, so that's very hard to do in such a
small tank. They also should have filtration as well.
Unless you plan on changing 100% of the water weekl, then use a filter.
Bettas only prefer still waters when spawning.
There's too much false information out there when it comes to Bettas.
Sadly, most of the false info you'll hear will be from the pet shops!
Goldfish, depending in the type need large, filtered tanks. The Oranda
type Goldies that have stocky, fat bodies really need minimum of 10-15
gallons per fish and 15-20 gallons per Goldie when it's the common or
Comet type, as they grow much longer (some up to 16" long). Koi have no
business in home aquariums and should only be kept in large ponds.
They simply grow much too large for the average home aquarium.
In either case, Goldies require extra filtration as they put out a
great deal more waste than the average fish. They also should have
bumped up water changes as well.
A 2 gallon tank is never a good thing for a Goldfish, unless it's
filtered and the fish is an inch long baby.
Goldies also are long lived fish. Their lifespan is about 20 yrs.
Bettas, average about 2-4 yrs. However, if kept under good conditions
they can live over 5. Of course genetics play a part in that as well.
Sorry to hear that your Goldie didn't make it.
Now, how is the Betta doing?
Keep his water clean, and heated to 78-80*f, and fed well and he should
heal quickly.
Bettas, by nature, heal very quickly....as long as they have clean
water and are kept warm.
Bettas in dirty, colder water are suceptible to diseases such Fin Rot
and Fungus when they have been damaged.

Tynk wrote:
Koi-lo wrote:

"Cassie" wrote in message
. ..

I had a betta fish who was healthy and happy when I (stupidly) decided
that it would be ok to keep it together with a new goldfish in a two
gallon tank.

## I never trust bettas. They can turn on other fish in a heartbeat. All
my bettas live alone. As for goldfish - the rule is 10 gallons per fish
since they get quite large if healthy. They're big eaters and pass a lot of
waste. A 2 gallon tank is only suitable for a few guppies or a betta.

I thought the betta would only be aggressive towards other

bettas.

## I have seen them turn aggressive against tankmates they'd been with for
weeks, maybe months.

They were doing fine for almost a month and then when I woke up

this morning I noticed my goldfish had red spots on his body and my
bettas fins had been nipped all over the place. It basically looks like
the webbing is gone from the long fins and what is left are more like
pink strands of fin. Can this heal?

## If he's healthy and the water is really clean. If infection sets in it
can die.

How can I tell if there is other

damage? What should I do about my goldfish?

## Buy a tank large enough to keep goldfish. If you have 2 then get a 20
gallon tank, if 3 get a 30L tank and so on.

So far I have put them in

separate bowls,

## They will suffocate in bowls unless they have some type of filter and
aeration. Please buy a tank for them or find them another home.

but I am pretty new to fish keeping and dont know how

to help my betta, she looks worse off than the goldfish.

## You can Google goldfish and bettas. There are thousands of webpages to
learn their needs and how to best meet them.

My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:

## I never trust bettas. They can turn on other fish in a heartbeat. All
my bettas live alone.


You simply do not understand Bettas.
Bettas don't just "turn" on tank mates. You simply didn't understand
the "why".
(back ground on myself....I have been a Betta fancier for nearly 28 yrs
and have bred them for many of those years)
Each Betta has an individual personality. These fish are aware of their
surroundings too. They really do know who their keeper is. That wiggle
dance they do every time you walk into the room isn't begging for food
all the time. They're also trying to get your attention.
Bettas are also socialble fish. They don't want to be solitary.
Bettas have a hierarchy and right there that shows you that these fish
are not solitary by nature.
Rarely you will find an overly aggressvie Betta that must be kept
isolated, but the majority are fine in a community tank with suitable
tank mates for the Betta, as they are usually the ones getting nipped,
not the other way around.
Many times a male that is put into a community tank may huff and puff
at first, but usually they calm down right away as soon as they realize
these other fish aren't going to harm them.
Many times Bettas that are kept solitary become listless and bored.
Some even go into depression without a flare buddy or tank mates.
I hope you are keeping your solitary males next to each other so that
they can flare with each other.
Another common myth is that they will be stressed too much and die if
housed next to other males permantly. It just isn't so.
They actually need the exercise and stimulation.
The largest myth out there regarding Bettas is that they *prefer* small
tanks without filtration. Absolutely untrue.
Just because they can survive in a small, unfiltered tank doesn't mean
that they enjoy or prefer it, and don't succumb to the affects of dirty
water like regular fish do.
Bettas, like every fish in the world, benefit from filtration.
In smaller tanks (minimum 1gal) their water should be changed 100% 1-2
times weekly in order for them to not suffer from high nitrite/nitrate
and ammonia levels, just like other fish.
Because Bettas can breathe surface air with their labyrinth organ
people mistakingly believe that this means they prefer to live in small
spaces and don't suffer the ill affects of high ammonia or
nirtite/nitrates levels. I'll never understand why folks think this
way.
The myth about them prefering small bowls because they live in small
mud puddles in the wild makes me want to choke the person saying it.
Folks don't undertsand that Rice paddy fileds are NOT small mud
puddles. They're usually about 18" deep and the size of a lake or other
larger body of water.
These are fed fresh water constantly, not stagnant mud puddles like
some would have you beleive.
Nature gave them a labyrinth organ so that they could *survive* the dry
seasons. This is where the myth of them prefering it comes into play.
They can *survive* in tiny, shallow puddles until the rains come again.
Another myth is that the males fight to the death.
In the wild, they hardly ever rip each other to shreds.
They posture, flare, nip and chase. The loser simply swims away.
In a tank they have no place to go. The loser isn't "swimming away" so
the winner continues and then chunks are taken out of the fins, as well
as the body.
The loser usually dies from it's injuries, not that they fought to the
death.
Bettas definately need a certain amount of territory for them selves.
If a tank isn't large enough to house either a male or female Betta
with other tank mates than it feels threatened and will pursue the
"intruder".
Sometimes the tank simply doesn't have enough decorations or plants to
establish proper territories, and hence the Betta feels threatented and
goes after the tank mate.
So please, Koi-Lo, research a bit more about Bettas. They'll be better
for it, and you can also then give out proper advice about them as
well.


Hmmmm, you've given me an idea....I'd never thought of putting the two
betta tanks together - one of them (Bob's tank) is in quite a dark area
so I struggle to keep it pretty for him and was going to be moving it as
soon as I thought of a good location...if he moved next to Boris the
tank would get more light - and I might get some workspace back in the
kitchen :-)

Thanks
Gill

"Tynk" wrote in message
ups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
## I never trust bettas. They can turn on other fish in a heartbeat.
All
my bettas live alone.
============================
You simply do not understand Bettas.
Bettas don't just "turn" on tank mates. You simply didn't understand
the "why".
(back ground on myself....I have been a Betta fancier for nearly 28 yrs
and have bred them for many of those years)
Each Betta has an individual personality. These fish are aware of their
surroundings too. They really do know who their keeper is. That wiggle
dance they do every time you walk into the room isn't begging for food
all the time. They're also trying to get your attention.
Bettas are also socialble fish. They don't want to be solitary.
Bettas have a hierarchy and right there that shows you that these fish
are not solitary by nature.
Rarely you will find an overly aggressvie Betta that must be kept
isolated, but the majority are fine in a community tank with suitable
tank mates for the Betta, as they are usually the ones getting nipped,
not the other way around.
Many times a male that is put into a community tank may huff and puff
at first, but usually they calm down right away as soon as they realize
these other fish aren't going to harm them.

## I agree with most of this but I have seen bettas I raised myself go very
well in a community tank, then for no good reason we could ever see -
suddenly viciously rip another fishes tail or other fins. We didn't just
suspect them of doing it, we saw them do it. :-(

Many times Bettas that are kept solitary become listless and bored.
Some even go into depression without a flare buddy or tank mates.
I hope you are keeping your solitary males next to each other so that
they can flare with each other.

## I agree with this as well. I keep mine next to each other on a
windowsill. They seem to enjoy watching what's going on outside, each other
and what we're doing. :-)

Another common myth is that they will be stressed too much and die if
housed next to other males permantly. It just isn't so.
They actually need the exercise and stimulation.
The largest myth out there regarding Bettas is that they *prefer* small
tanks without filtration. Absolutely untrue.

## Agreed! Each of mine has a bowl or small tank complete with gravel and
at least one live plant. They live up to 4 years. I haven't bred them here
because I'd have to do too much work on our hard alkaline water. In NYC it
was a softer acid water and they'd breed like crazy.

Just because they can survive in a small, unfiltered tank doesn't mean
that they enjoy or prefer it, and don't succumb to the affects of dirty
water like regular fish do.
Bettas, like every fish in the world, benefit from filtration.
In smaller tanks (minimum 1gal) their water should be changed 100% 1-2
times weekly in order for them to not suffer from high nitrite/nitrate
and ammonia levels, just like other fish.

## You can help Prevent that with a small amount of gravel and one floating
water lettuce. WL doesn't get large in bowls and tanks but sure sucks up
the phosphates and nitrates.

Because Bettas can breathe surface air with their labyrinth organ
people mistakingly believe that this means they prefer to live in small
spaces and don't suffer the ill affects of high ammonia or
nirtite/nitrates levels. I'll never understand why folks think this
way.

## They simply don't know any better.

Sometimes the tank simply doesn't have enough decorations or plants to
establish proper territories, and hence the Betta feels threatented and
goes after the tank mate.

## All my tanks are full of plants and natural rocks. Nothing artificial.
Why some of these males take exception to tankmates they've been with and
start shredding their fins we'll never know for sure. I simply removed them
to gallon pickle jars when caught in the act.

So please, Koi-Lo, research a bit more about Bettas. They'll be better
for it, and you can also then give out proper advice about them as
well.

## I stand by what I said since I caught them in the act. There was no
reason that we could see for them to suddenly come up next to another fish
and quickly and viciously rip it's fins..... no bubble nests were present.
The other fish were no threat to them in any way. The only other
explanation was they may have been a particularly aggressive strain of
bettas. To this day I don't keep them in community tanks. If a betta is
added to a community and suddenly you start seeing ripped fins - he's the
one to watch . :-) And yes, I will always keep bettas as I love them to
death. I just bought a female for $3.49 because of her beauty and
perfection. Who knows,... maybe I will try breeding them in our water.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
Hmmmm, you've given me an idea....I'd never thought of putting the two
betta tanks together - one of them (Bob's tank) is in quite a dark area so
I struggle to keep it pretty for him and was going to be moving it as soon
as I thought of a good location...if he moved next to Boris the tank would
get more light - and I might get some workspace back in the kitchen :-)
=======================
Most of my bettas are on my sunny kitchen windowsill. They're next to each
other in an assortment of bowls with gravel and a water lettuce in each.
The window is a double-pane but on really cold nights I move them to the
counter. Two are in my sunroom. One beauty is in a filtered 2 gallon tank
and an aged no longer attractive male is in a gallon pickle jar amid the
tropical houseplants. You can say he's in retirement.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
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