New Tank Still Struggling??

Hello All,
I posted here a few months ago when I was starting my first tank (I
guess I still am starting . . ). Here's a synopsis.

Started with a 26 gallon tank And added 2 Mollys, 1 Guppy and 1
Swordtail. Not fully understaning how to cycle the tank, all but one
of the Mollys died after two weeks due to the ammonia spike. I kept
monitoring the ammonia levels and after a few weeks, noticed them
dropping off and the Nitrites spiking (as expected ). A few weeks
later the Nitrites started dropping and the Nitrates started climbing.

All the while, I was doing regular partial water changes (about 20 %),
in the hopes of saving my one Molly, even though I knew it would extend
the time it would take to cycle.

After a week or so of no noticable Ammonia or Nitrites and a small
amout of Nitrates, I added two Female Plattys. I monitored my levels
for about two weeks and everything looked normal (Ammonia=0,
Nitrites=0, Nitrates minimal).

This puts me at this past weekend

I noticed my Filter (Whisper Power 30) overflowing from the 'Wonder
Tube Chamber', indicating the need to change the filter (according to
the manual). I purchased a new filter, did a partial water change
(20%) and added 2 new fish (1 Swordtail, 1 Molly).

Over the last few days, I've been checking my levels and have not seen
any unusual spikes in Ammonia or Nitrites or Nitrates, yet by this
morning, the two new fish I just purchased were dead (after 4 days).
Another Check of the levels shows the following:
pH: 7.8
Alkalinity: 120
Hardness: 7.5
Ammonia: 0.25 mg/L (hard to tell by the color result, but appears to
be a trace)
Nitrites: 0 mg/L
Nitrates: 20 mg/L

My biggest question is if changing the filter was a bad move as there
appears to be a trace of ammonia. I wouldn't think that this would be
enough to kill them, however, and that there should be enough bacteria
in the bio-foam and gravel to handle the load.

My other three fish, including the two I bought a few weeks ago seem
fine, at least for now.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Jon

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello All,
I posted here a few months ago when I was starting my first tank (I
guess I still am starting . . ). Here's a synopsis.

Started with a 26 gallon tank And added 2 Mollys, 1 Guppy and 1
Swordtail. Not fully understaning how to cycle the tank, all but one
of the Mollys died after two weeks due to the ammonia spike. I kept
monitoring the ammonia levels and after a few weeks, noticed them
dropping off and the Nitrites spiking (as expected ). A few weeks
later the Nitrites started dropping and the Nitrates started climbing.

All the while, I was doing regular partial water changes (about 20 %),
in the hopes of saving my one Molly, even though I knew it would extend
the time it would take to cycle.

After a week or so of no noticable Ammonia or Nitrites and a small
amout of Nitrates, I added two Female Plattys. I monitored my levels
for about two weeks and everything looked normal (Ammonia=0,
Nitrites=0, Nitrates minimal).

This puts me at this past weekend

I noticed my Filter (Whisper Power 30) overflowing from the 'Wonder
Tube Chamber', indicating the need to change the filter (according to
the manual). I purchased a new filter, did a partial water change
(20%) and added 2 new fish (1 Swordtail, 1 Molly).

Over the last few days, I've been checking my levels and have not seen
any unusual spikes in Ammonia or Nitrites or Nitrates, yet by this
morning, the two new fish I just purchased were dead (after 4 days).
Another Check of the levels shows the following:
pH: 7.8
Alkalinity: 120
Hardness: 7.5
Ammonia: 0.25 mg/L (hard to tell by the color result, but appears to
be a trace)
Nitrites: 0 mg/L
Nitrates: 20 mg/L

My biggest question is if changing the filter was a bad move as there
appears to be a trace of ammonia. I wouldn't think that this would be
enough to kill them, however, and that there should be enough bacteria
in the bio-foam and gravel to handle the load.

My other three fish, including the two I bought a few weeks ago seem
fine, at least for now.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Jon


There are a lot of people on here who know about cycling and could tell you
if maybe your tank started to recycle, anyway I just wanted to say, I don't
usually change my filter unless it really needs it, I clean it out with
water, because you need the good bacteria in it. If your talking about a
hang on the back filter I have had mine over flow from not having it
situated right.
nikki

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:55:19 -0500, "Nikki"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Hello All,
I posted here a few months ago when I was starting my first tank (I
guess I still am starting . . ). Here's a synopsis.

Started with a 26 gallon tank And added 2 Mollys, 1 Guppy and 1
Swordtail. Not fully understaning how to cycle the tank, all but one
of the Mollys died after two weeks due to the ammonia spike. I kept
monitoring the ammonia levels and after a few weeks, noticed them
dropping off and the Nitrites spiking (as expected ). A few weeks
later the Nitrites started dropping and the Nitrates started climbing.

All the while, I was doing regular partial water changes (about 20 %),
in the hopes of saving my one Molly, even though I knew it would extend
the time it would take to cycle.

After a week or so of no noticable Ammonia or Nitrites and a small
amout of Nitrates, I added two Female Plattys. I monitored my levels
for about two weeks and everything looked normal (Ammonia=0,
Nitrites=0, Nitrates minimal).

This puts me at this past weekend

I noticed my Filter (Whisper Power 30) overflowing from the 'Wonder
Tube Chamber', indicating the need to change the filter (according to
the manual). I purchased a new filter, did a partial water change
(20%) and added 2 new fish (1 Swordtail, 1 Molly).

Over the last few days, I've been checking my levels and have not seen
any unusual spikes in Ammonia or Nitrites or Nitrates, yet by this
morning, the two new fish I just purchased were dead (after 4 days).
Another Check of the levels shows the following:
pH: 7.8
Alkalinity: 120
Hardness: 7.5
Ammonia: 0.25 mg/L (hard to tell by the color result, but appears to
be a trace)
Nitrites: 0 mg/L
Nitrates: 20 mg/L

My biggest question is if changing the filter was a bad move as there
appears to be a trace of ammonia. I wouldn't think that this would be
enough to kill them, however, and that there should be enough bacteria
in the bio-foam and gravel to handle the load.

My other three fish, including the two I bought a few weeks ago seem
fine, at least for now.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Jon


There are a lot of people on here who know about cycling and could tell you
if maybe your tank started to recycle, anyway I just wanted to say, I don't
usually change my filter unless it really needs it, I clean it out with
water, because you need the good bacteria in it. If your talking about a
hang on the back filter I have had mine over flow from not having it
situated right.
nikki

Whisper biobags can be rinsed in old tank water or non chlorinated
lukewarm water and be used for a few more weeks. The Whisper biosponge
should have had a healthy population of bacteria after all these
weeks, and the plastic frame for the biobag is also designed to retain
bacteria. You also have bacteria on your gravel and other surfaces in
the water. I don't think your filter change had anything to do with
your fish loss and your rise in ammonia a few days after changing the
biobag. I wonder if the ammonia could be from the decomposing fish
corpses. You did three things on the same day, you did a water change,
you did a filter media change, and you added fish. I would have waited
a couple of days between each of those procedures. And my fish might
have died just like yours, but I would have known at what point in the
tank maintenance tasks the fish died. Which may or may not have given
me a clue as to why the died.

And if you intend to continue with Whisper filters, buy your biobags
by the 12 or 24 pack and save yourself a bundle.

-- Mister Gardener

Thanks to all for the responses. I was a little concerned about
changing the bio-bag, but it had been running for about 3 months and
had noticed a decrease in the flow of water back into the tank (along
with the overflow). You mentioned that the plastic frame from the
bio-bag is designed to retain bacteria. When I replaced the bio-bag,
should I have removed the frame from the old bag and put it in the new
one, or just changed the entire bio-bag (like I did)? Again, I'm not
sure if that was the cause or not.

Doing all three in one day was just us being impatient. Of course,
we're learning more and more how patience is one of the keys!

I'll continue monitoring my levels to see if the Ammonia keeps rising.
The first one that died yesterday was probably dead in the tank for at
least half of the day when I was at work. The second for not very
long.

Jon

On 23 Mar 2006 09:53:18 -0800, wrote:

Thanks to all for the responses. I was a little concerned about
changing the bio-bag, but it had been running for about 3 months and
had noticed a decrease in the flow of water back into the tank (along
with the overflow). You mentioned that the plastic frame from the
bio-bag is designed to retain bacteria. When I replaced the bio-bag,
should I have removed the frame from the old bag and put it in the new
one, or just changed the entire bio-bag (like I did)? Again, I'm not
sure if that was the cause or not.

Doing all three in one day was just us being impatient. Of course,
we're learning more and more how patience is one of the keys!

I'll continue monitoring my levels to see if the Ammonia keeps rising.
The first one that died yesterday was probably dead in the tank for at
least half of the day when I was at work. The second for not very
long.

Jon

Before Whisper introduced their biosponges, they used to promote their
bag frames as biological filters. Today, that is laughable. I am sure
the etching in the plastic frame retains some bacteria, but hardly
enough to call it a bio filter. They now supply their filters with the
sponges and sell very inexpensive upgrades for their old filters.
These sponges are more up to the task of harboring helpful bacteria.
So technically, you should have kept the used frame and applied the
new bag over it, rather than replace the frame. But I doubt you lost
very much bacteria by replacing the frame.

I got the impression that you weren't totally satisfied with your
water test kit's reading of ammonia. If you have the same brand that I
have, I'll tell you that the ammonia color card is an absolute bugger
to read - I've never gotten a sample that was the same shade of yellow
as the card, but never unyellow enough to call it positive. At very
best, I might call it trace, but I'm satisfied for my purposes that if
it looks pretty close then I'll call it yellow.

-- Mister Gardener

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll continue monitoring my levels to see if the Ammonia keeps rising.
The first one that died yesterday was probably dead in the tank for at
least half of the day when I was at work. The second for not very
long.
====================
I hope you're not bringing them home and putting them into your tank without
acclimating them to your water conditions. We used to call that PH shock
but more is involved that others can better explain. There is one store
that has a PH of 6.6 to 6.8 and their water is very soft. If I just add
fish from there to my Quarantine tank (everything gets quarantined here)
with it's high alkalinity, hardness and PH of 7.8, I am almost guaranteed to
lose most of them.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Koi-Lo" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll continue monitoring my levels to see if the Ammonia keeps rising.
The first one that died yesterday was probably dead in the tank for at
least half of the day when I was at work. The second for not very
long.
====================
I hope you're not bringing them home and putting them into your tank
without acclimating them to your water conditions. We used to call that
PH shock but more is involved that others can better explain. There is
one store that has a PH of 6.6 to 6.8 and their water is very soft. If I
just add fish from there to my Quarantine tank (everything gets
quarantined here) with it's high alkalinity, hardness and PH of 7.8, I am
almost guaranteed to lose most of them.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

jon, sorry, guess i was wrong....i just know when i used to change my
filters alot i had problems and someone told me it was not a great idea to
change them to often, i think we may have different filters. But when i
clean mine off i just scoop out some water from the tank and rinse it, but
mine also overflows when it gets yucky. Nik

koi
as you are getting them used to your water, do you put water from your tank
into their bag?
that's what I do, but I'm sure not long enough, but I have not lost fish
from it yet, then again me an the fish store are probably using the same
water she is only five min from me, anyway how long do you wait before
putting them in your tank?
just wondering?
have you ever spilled the bag with fish in it while trying to do it, I hate
those stupid bags, I got some little guppies for my sons tank he wants
something with his ADF, and as I was putting the water in the bag from his
tank, over it went, fish were all over my kitchen counter, my six year old
did not think it was funny, but my two older ones "teenagers" of course were
laughing so hard, I'm trying to get them to help me catch them and they had
to leave the room they were laughing so hard, anyway not the first time I
have done that to some innocent fish, they should put something at the
bottom of the bags so they sit up right when you take the band off.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:23:50 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
I'll continue monitoring my levels to see if the Ammonia keeps rising.
The first one that died yesterday was probably dead in the tank for at
least half of the day when I was at work. The second for not very
long.
====================
I hope you're not bringing them home and putting them into your tank without
acclimating them to your water conditions. We used to call that PH shock
but more is involved that others can better explain. There is one store
that has a PH of 6.6 to 6.8 and their water is very soft. If I just add
fish from there to my Quarantine tank (everything gets quarantined here)
with it's high alkalinity, hardness and PH of 7.8, I am almost guaranteed to
lose most of them.

I operate on the assumption, and we all know what they say about
assuming, that everyone who posts here has read The FAQs at The Krib.
And for those who haven't, well, head on over there.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html


-- Mister Gardener

Mollies are much better in brackish water, ie with an amount of salt
added as they are prone to disease in normal freshwater tanks. I would
never have them in my tank for this reason having found out the hard
way losing large numbers.

I think it very well could have been a combination of the filter change
and the new additions that caused the ammonia spike. The nitrogen cycle
can be fragile in newly established tanks. The majority of nitrifying
bacteria DO live in the filter media and then secondly in the gravel
and decor and very few are just swimming about the tank. I do a quick
swish of the old filter in the water before making the change to a new
filter bag.

Also, when cycling you established enough bacteria to support the
bioload you had. When your fish died and there was just one molly left
some of that bacteria may have died off leaving only what was needed to
sustain the bioload. Adding new fish to that could cause a hiccup in
the cycle allowing you to see small amounts of ammonia. To simplify,
all of a sudden you had more ammonia then your bacteria could consume.

I went through a lot of stress myself when I first learned about tank
cycling and put it into action. All I can say is, once it all works
itself out, it is SO worth it!

Hang in there.