tank water problems - please help

I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

I increased the frquency of the water changes gradually (assuming 'old
tank syndrome') and I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
every week, but still the algae grows and the tank generally looks
under the weather.
For the last few weeks I have not used the 3rd triton tube.

I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
yrs, they don't work efficiently any more.

2 Airstones pumping a lot of air.

Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter which has coarse
substrate at the bottom, coarse filter pad, smooth substrate, filter
wool and finally a bag of carbon on top. I now clean the substrate in
tank water every 2/3 weeks and replace the filter wool and carbon at
the same time.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
the new plants have subsequently died.

I live in a hard/very hard water area.
Water testing has shown the following-

on 3 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 10
NO3 mg/l - 500

After this test I changed 1/3 of the water and cleaned the substrate
in the filter and replaced the carbon.

on 15 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 1
NO3 mg/l - 500

Any help to get my tank back to good health will be much appreciated.

Many thanks
Pete

Who gives a **** Pete, take a hike. Were all out of answers for ther
month of May. Come back early in June and maybe you will get a reply.
Regards Carol Gulley.......aka Koi Lo


On Tue, 16 May 2006 16:46:51 +0100, Pete
wrote:
I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

I increased the frquency of the water changes gradually (assuming 'old
tank syndrome') and I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
every week, but still the algae grows and the tank generally looks
under the weather.
For the last few weeks I have not used the 3rd triton tube.

I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
yrs, they don't work efficiently any more.

2 Airstones pumping a lot of air.

Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter which has coarse
substrate at the bottom, coarse filter pad, smooth substrate, filter
wool and finally a bag of carbon on top. I now clean the substrate in
tank water every 2/3 weeks and replace the filter wool and carbon at
the same time.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
the new plants have subsequently died.

I live in a hard/very hard water area.
Water testing has shown the following-

on 3 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 10
NO3 mg/l - 500

After this test I changed 1/3 of the water and cleaned the substrate
in the filter and replaced the carbon.

on 15 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 1
NO3 mg/l - 500

Any help to get my tank back to good health will be much appreciated.

Many thanks
Pete


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion...
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*

"Pete" wrote in message
...
I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

More water changes. Try using Flourish Excell and micronutrients. These
will help but even better is to also add a small pleco (clown plecs only get
5" long) and some otos. They really turned the tide in my infected tanks.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Have you been adding aquarium plant fertilizers? What plants are they?

Many thanks
Pete

Koi-Lo....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~{@

I don't think I have the strength to change the water more than once a
week - surely once a week is enough...

I tend to shy away from adding any chemicals to the tank and have
never added any.

I have discovered that the algae is Black Brush algae, so
pleco's/oto's won't touch it. The only fish that is reputed to eat it
is the Siamese Flying Fox aka Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus
siamensis), but I'd probably need a whole shoal to get through the
amount I have..

The tank was heavily planted with a huge variety of plants, but the
only plants that continue to grow is a cabomba-type plant. Everything
else is smothered in the algae.

My gut feeling is that there's something amiss with the external
filter.

Thanks for your reply,
Pete

On Tue, 16 May 2006 11:11:20 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*

"Pete" wrote in message
.. .
I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

More water changes. Try using Flourish Excell and micronutrients. These
will help but even better is to also add a small pleco (clown plecs only get
5" long) and some otos. They really turned the tide in my infected tanks.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Have you been adding aquarium plant fertilizers? What plants are they?

Many thanks
Pete

Koi-Lo....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~{@

What, you can't change the water cause your a wussy boy..........go
get a clue pete, and buy some vitamins while your at it. Its that lack
of sunshiine in the UK making you anemic. Speedy for an email name is
probably a lie to.......




On Tue, 16 May 2006 17:27:40 +0100, Pete
wrote:
I don't think I have the strength to change the water more than once a
week - surely once a week is enough...

I tend to shy away from adding any chemicals to the tank and have
never added any.

I have discovered that the algae is Black Brush algae, so
pleco's/oto's won't touch it. The only fish that is reputed to eat it
is the Siamese Flying Fox aka Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus
siamensis), but I'd probably need a whole shoal to get through the
amount I have..

The tank was heavily planted with a huge variety of plants, but the
only plants that continue to grow is a cabomba-type plant. Everything
else is smothered in the algae.

My gut feeling is that there's something amiss with the external
filter.

Thanks for your reply,
Pete

On Tue, 16 May 2006 11:11:20 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*

"Pete" wrote in message
om...
I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

More water changes. Try using Flourish Excell and micronutrients. These
will help but even better is to also add a small pleco (clown plecs only get
5" long) and some otos. They really turned the tide in my infected tanks.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Have you been adding aquarium plant fertilizers? What plants are they?

Many thanks
Pete

Koi-Lo....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ {@ ~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~{@


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion...
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

That's probably the funniest thing I've every heard - you msut be
proud of yourself.

On Tue, 16 May 2006 16:30:49 GMT, (-ED) wrote:

What, you can't change the water cause your a wussy boy..........go
get a clue pete, and buy some vitamins while your at it. Its that lack
of sunshiine in the UK making you anemic. Speedy for an email name is
probably a lie to.......




On Tue, 16 May 2006 17:27:40 +0100, Pete
wrote:
I don't think I have the strength to change the water more than once a
week - surely once a week is enough...

I tend to shy away from adding any chemicals to the tank and have
never added any.

I have discovered that the algae is Black Brush algae, so
pleco's/oto's won't touch it. The only fish that is reputed to eat it
is the Siamese Flying Fox aka Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus
siamensis), but I'd probably need a whole shoal to get through the
amount I have..

The tank was heavily planted with a huge variety of plants, but the
only plants that continue to grow is a cabomba-type plant. Everything
else is smothered in the algae.

My gut feeling is that there's something amiss with the external
filter.

Thanks for your reply,
Pete

On Tue, 16 May 2006 11:11:20 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*

"Pete" wrote in message
news:rusj625sslgtrr39q4ngbldlodrrgrp5mj@4ax. com...
I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

More water changes. Try using Flourish Excell and micronutrients. These
will help but even better is to also add a small pleco (clown plecs only get
5" long) and some otos. They really turned the tide in my infected tanks.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Have you been adding aquarium plant fertilizers? What plants are they?

Many thanks
Pete

Koi-Lo....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{ @ ~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~{@


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion...
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*

"Pete" wrote in message
...
I don't think I have the strength to change the water more than once a
week - surely once a week is enough...

Then do a MAJOR change. I mean replace as much water as you can once a
week.

I tend to shy away from adding any chemicals to the tank and have
never added any.

Fertilizers are NEEDED by plants or they starve to death eventually. But
fist you need to get the algae off the plants in some way. The Excell will
stimulate the plants to grow faster... and the trace elements will FEED the
plants to do so.

I have discovered that the algae is Black Brush algae, so
pleco's/oto's won't touch it. The only fish that is reputed to eat it
is the Siamese Flying Fox aka Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus
siamensis), but I'd probably need a whole shoal to get through the
amount I have..

No necessarily. Get 2 or 3 of them plus a few otos and a small Pleco.

The tank was heavily planted with a huge variety of plants, but the
only plants that continue to grow is a cabomba-type plant. Everything
else is smothered in the algae.

Vacuum the gravel like crazy. Clean the filter. Do massive water changes
as often as you can and use fertilizers. Your plants are not getting enough
from the fish waste alone.

My gut feeling is that there's something amiss with the external
filter.

Thanks for your reply,
Pete

Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952. Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Disclaimer:
Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~~~{@ ~~~~~{@

Take a ****ing hike CArol your not needed nor desired here,. See the
problems you created........all have to suffer because of your
doings........

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion...
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Hard to suggest anything to someone with 15 years experience. I am
doing 20% water changes twice weekly and do not use underground
filters. I don't know how the tank dimensions work out in gallons,
but it sounds like more than low light conditions. My tanks are all
low lighted.

I don't see how the filter would matter now that you are making weekly
water changes. Once algae gets started it is hard to eliminate in my
experience, however I did clear up a case of black beard algae by
removing contaminated plants, scrapping the glass, removing
contaminated gravel and adding algae eaters.

dick

On Tue, 16 May 2006 16:46:51 +0100, Pete
wrote:

I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

I increased the frquency of the water changes gradually (assuming 'old
tank syndrome') and I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
every week, but still the algae grows and the tank generally looks
under the weather.
For the last few weeks I have not used the 3rd triton tube.

I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
yrs, they don't work efficiently any more.

2 Airstones pumping a lot of air.

Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter which has coarse
substrate at the bottom, coarse filter pad, smooth substrate, filter
wool and finally a bag of carbon on top. I now clean the substrate in
tank water every 2/3 weeks and replace the filter wool and carbon at
the same time.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
the new plants have subsequently died.

I live in a hard/very hard water area.
Water testing has shown the following-

on 3 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 10
NO3 mg/l - 500

After this test I changed 1/3 of the water and cleaned the substrate
in the filter and replaced the carbon.

on 15 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 1
NO3 mg/l - 500

Any help to get my tank back to good health will be much appreciated.

Many thanks
Pete

"Pete" wrote in message
...
I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.
*snip*
The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

I'd like to know what plants thrive so much in low light (120w
flourescent over 150G tank?)
In either case, your algae growth explosion is due to either an excess or
absence of nutrients. With everything else you mention, sounds like
perhaps you had a prolonged pH crash which gave the algae the foothold it
needed whilest killing your plants. Thiving algae + excess nutrients (due
to plant die-off) + new, unestablished plants = algae-covered plants.

You make no mnetion of CO2 injection either. without it, your water is
low in CO2 in the first place. Advantage: algae.

Invest in some test kits to see what's going on in your tank. And how old
are these test kits you're using? Perhaps they're expired or faulty? Your
readings below show nitrIte of 10 ppm???? Pretty sure you'd have a tank
of dead fish. You're nitrAte results also are lacking. After 15 years
of enjoyment, surely, the relatively small cost of test kits is worth it.
with your stepped up regimen of water changing, you seem to have
stabilized the tank at least, however, issues remain. clean the
gravel/whatever you're using every water change. Some try to get all of
it, some pick sections and thoroughly vacumm it. Do what you need to in
your tank. Get rid of the undergravel filter..and whens the last time you
cleaned under the plates? You say it's less efficient..think you got some
major buildup under there? Yank those out. Your plants are dead/dying
anyway, no need to worry of roots entangled in the plates. this could be
where your problem lay. Nitrate "500" ppm really tells you nothing. You
need a more accurate reading than that.a pH crash will negatively impact
your biological filtration, as well as kill plants. Bacterial activity
takes a bit of a hit at/around pH 6.4 this and plant loss = more
nutrients for algae to utilize.

Test your water to see what's going in the tank. Test your tap water t
see what the tank system is doingto the water. Google for black brush
algae remedies. r.a.f.plants may be able to shed some insight also. If
you can and if you want to improve the plants, look at improving your
lighting situation and adding CO2 injection and fertilization. . (this
may be a chunk of change and the time to do some research so you don't
cause other problems)

Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
the new plants have subsequently died.

Plants have water requirements also. They have arange where they survive
and a range where they thrive. "plants" is pretty generic.

I live in a hard/very hard water area.
Water testing has shown the following-

on 3 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 10
NO3 mg/l - 500
After this test I changed 1/3 of the water and cleaned the substrate
in the filter and replaced the carbon.

on 15 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - 21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 1
NO3 mg/l - 500

A 12-day lapse in minimal testing when you know you have a problem is too
much. After your next water change, test the tank perhaps 1 or 2 days
later. See what's going on. compare it to your outgassed tap water. Old
tank syndrome should have much higher nitrate than this, unless lack of
biological filtration. NitrIte of 1.0ppm is not desirable, so even if you
meant 1ppm not 10ppm, this is an indication/symptom of problems. No
ammonia testing? With nitrite of 1, and nitrate unknown, you've more than
likely got ammonia at elevated levels also. Test your outgassed tap water
for all three. tear up those UGF plates and get rid of them (at least
look under them from the bottom of the tank with a flashlight) Should be
no need for it if you have heavily planted tank. Same with the carbon in
your filter. lastly, no real mention of fish in your tank. They
dying/dead also? Fish should visibly react to detrimental changes in your
tank before plants should, catch is you need to be able to recognize that
change in behavior, coloration, etc. Sounds like you had warning signs of
your tank's condition falling, now you've got a problem. determine the
*cause* of the problem and the symptoms resolve themselves. JMO

HTH
-lila pilamaya