Cycling a 29g tank

I haven't had an aquarium since I was a kid but for the past 6 months
I have been reading the newsgroups and various books on tropical fish
and got the itch to get a tank going again. There was a 29 gallon
tank with stand at the LFS by my house that I really liked. My wife
surprised me on our 2 year anniversary and bought it for me. After
doing some research, I bought the following for it:

* Marineland Emperor 280 HOB filter with bio-wheel
* Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 submersible heater
* Estes' Ultra Reef black marine sand (says safe for fresh or salt
water)
* Couple of fake pieces of wood and plants

Here is a picture of my tank the night I filled it up with water for
the first time (the picture was taken before I setup the Emperor
filter):

http://www.debaser.net/v1.5/images/fish_tank.jpg

I conditioned the water with Jungle Water Safe Plus and let the tank
run for a couple of days. I tested my water with those Jungle 5 in 1
quick dip test strips and it showed the following: pH at 7.8,
alkalinity (KH) at 180ppm and hardness (GH) at 150ppm. I set the
heater to 76 and had it mounted on a 45 degree angle under the filter
near the bottom of the tank. I was having problems with the
temperature of the water moving up and down 1-2 degrees so I mounted
the heater vertically under the filter to the left a little and the
temperature stays right at 76 degrees now.

I decided I ultimately wanted to have a species tank with tiger barbs
so I picked up 3 green tiger barbs to cycle the tank. The fish were
loving the tank and having a good time. There was one that was
definately leader of the pack and would chase the other two around. I
should have been keeping a better eye on them because after about two
weeks, two of the barbs had there fins nipped really bad. One was so
bad that it's pelvic fins were just these white puffs and his caudal
fin was in rough shape too. The other one had his caudal fin nipped
but was still in ok shape. During these two weeks, I had been
checking my ammonia and nothing seemed to be showing up yet. My water
had a cloudy look to it which I believe was from the backteria
starting to grow. In fearing for my fish, I decided to get 3 albino
tiger barbs to add to the tank, thinking the leader of the pack would
have other fish to distract him. Unfortunately, it was too late and
the one green tiger barb with the bad pelvic fins died soon after. A
couple of days later, the other green tiger barb died. I decided I
didn't want my 3 albino's to suffer the same fate so I took out the
last green tiger barb out of the 29g tank.

Shortly after adding the 3 albino's, I started seeing my ammonia level
come up to about .25ppm. Around this same time, one of my albino's
got some kind of eye infection. His right eye was really cloudy and
enlarged. A couple of days later, he died. After I removed him from
the tank, I did my first water change, which was around 20%. This was
about 3 weeks after I initially setup the tank. At the same time, I
also removed quite a bit of the sand to get it down to about an inch
deep since I added too much initially. This probably wasn't a good
thing to do as I'm sure it set back my cycling.

I bought a Python to do my water changes and was doing a 20% water
changes every 3 days after the first water change. The first couple
water changes, I was adding the water directly to the tank and then
putting in a capful of AquaPlus to remove the chlorine. I felt like I
was wasting a ton of water with the Python and didn't really like the
idea of adding untreated tap water directly to the tank so I bought a
cheap syphon and a 5 gallon bucket to do water changes. I actually
like this alot better than the Python.

It's been 6 weeks since I initially setup my tank and it is only
showing somewhere between .25 and .50ppm of ammonia and no signs of
nitrite. My other levels are still the same (pH 7.8, KH 180ppm and GH
at 150ppm). The two remaining albino's seems to be doing fine, tho
one does get picked on by the other but I've been keeping an eye on
his fins and they are fine. They actually like it when I do water
changes and one of them swims right up to the hose as the water comes
into the tank. My water still has a faint cloudy look to it.

Should I continuing doing 20% water changes every 3 days until my tank
is cycled? I was talking to a guy who seemed knowledgeable at the LFS
tonight and he recommended I put some Hagen Cycle in my tank to help
speed up the cycling process and that I cut back on water changes to
once a week. What do you guys think? Also, should I replace the
filter in my Emperor? It's been 6 weeks and they say to change these
every month. I'm thinking I shouldn't since I don't want to possibly
delay my tank cycling even longer. Also, the bio-wheel still seems to
be moving pretty fast, no matter which way I turn the spray bar. It
doesn't seem to be too discolored yet either. Speaking of spray bar,
what position do you guys who have one of these filters put the spray
bar and does it really matter?

Sorry for the long winded post. I just wanted to make sure I included
enough info about what has been going on with my tank for the past 6
weeks. Any input would be appreciate. Thanks.

Rodney

Rodney M muttered darkly:
I haven't had an aquarium since I was a kid but for the past 6 months
I have been reading the newsgroups and various books on tropical fish
and got the itch to get a tank going again. There was a 29 gallon
tank with stand at the LFS by my house that I really liked. My wife
surprised me on our 2 year anniversary and bought it for me. After
doing some research, I bought the following for it:

* Marineland Emperor 280 HOB filter with bio-wheel
* Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 submersible heater
* Estes' Ultra Reef black marine sand (says safe for fresh or salt
water)
* Couple of fake pieces of wood and plants

Here is a picture of my tank the night I filled it up with water for
the first time (the picture was taken before I setup the Emperor
filter):

http://www.debaser.net/v1.5/images/fish_tank.jpg

I conditioned the water with Jungle Water Safe Plus and let the tank
run for a couple of days. I tested my water with those Jungle 5 in 1
quick dip test strips and it showed the following: pH at 7.8,
alkalinity (KH) at 180ppm and hardness (GH) at 150ppm. I set the
heater to 76 and had it mounted on a 45 degree angle under the filter
near the bottom of the tank. I was having problems with the
temperature of the water moving up and down 1-2 degrees so I mounted
the heater vertically under the filter to the left a little and the
temperature stays right at 76 degrees now.

I decided I ultimately wanted to have a species tank with tiger barbs
so I picked up 3 green tiger barbs to cycle the tank. The fish were
loving the tank and having a good time. There was one that was
definately leader of the pack and would chase the other two around. I
should have been keeping a better eye on them because after about two
weeks, two of the barbs had there fins nipped really bad. One was so
bad that it's pelvic fins were just these white puffs and his caudal
fin was in rough shape too. The other one had his caudal fin nipped
but was still in ok shape. During these two weeks, I had been
checking my ammonia and nothing seemed to be showing up yet. My water
had a cloudy look to it which I believe was from the backteria
starting to grow. In fearing for my fish, I decided to get 3 albino
tiger barbs to add to the tank, thinking the leader of the pack would
have other fish to distract him. Unfortunately, it was too late and
the one green tiger barb with the bad pelvic fins died soon after. A
couple of days later, the other green tiger barb died. I decided I
didn't want my 3 albino's to suffer the same fate so I took out the
last green tiger barb out of the 29g tank.

Shortly after adding the 3 albino's, I started seeing my ammonia level
come up to about .25ppm. Around this same time, one of my albino's
got some kind of eye infection. His right eye was really cloudy and
enlarged. A couple of days later, he died. After I removed him from
the tank, I did my first water change, which was around 20%. This was
about 3 weeks after I initially setup the tank. At the same time, I
also removed quite a bit of the sand to get it down to about an inch
deep since I added too much initially. This probably wasn't a good
thing to do as I'm sure it set back my cycling.

I bought a Python to do my water changes and was doing a 20% water
changes every 3 days after the first water change. The first couple
water changes, I was adding the water directly to the tank and then
putting in a capful of AquaPlus to remove the chlorine. I felt like I
was wasting a ton of water with the Python and didn't really like the
idea of adding untreated tap water directly to the tank so I bought a
cheap syphon and a 5 gallon bucket to do water changes. I actually
like this alot better than the Python.

It's been 6 weeks since I initially setup my tank and it is only
showing somewhere between .25 and .50ppm of ammonia and no signs of
nitrite. My other levels are still the same (pH 7.8, KH 180ppm and GH
at 150ppm). The two remaining albino's seems to be doing fine, tho
one does get picked on by the other but I've been keeping an eye on
his fins and they are fine. They actually like it when I do water
changes and one of them swims right up to the hose as the water comes
into the tank. My water still has a faint cloudy look to it.

Should I continuing doing 20% water changes every 3 days until my tank
is cycled? I was talking to a guy who seemed knowledgeable at the LFS
tonight and he recommended I put some Hagen Cycle in my tank to help
speed up the cycling process and that I cut back on water changes to
once a week. What do you guys think? Also, should I replace the
filter in my Emperor? It's been 6 weeks and they say to change these
every month. I'm thinking I shouldn't since I don't want to possibly
delay my tank cycling even longer. Also, the bio-wheel still seems to
be moving pretty fast, no matter which way I turn the spray bar. It
doesn't seem to be too discolored yet either. Speaking of spray bar,
what position do you guys who have one of these filters put the spray
bar and does it really matter?

Sorry for the long winded post. I just wanted to make sure I included
enough info about what has been going on with my tank for the past 6
weeks. Any input would be appreciate. Thanks.

Rodney

I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies to this one Rodney, but here's my two
penn'orth:
IMHO you've made the common & understandable error of being a bit too keen
to get fish in there - I'd have waited for at least a couple of weeks before
introducing any fish at all, to give the tank a chance to cycle.
If at all possible it's best to use some water / gravel / filter media from
an already established tank when setting up yours (I'm sure others will
expand on this theme).
You obviously like Tiger barbs, but introducing such a small number was
probably not a great idea - they really need to be in a group of at least 6,
otherwise their natural nippy tendencies get concentrated on the weakest
link, as you saw - in a larger group, this behaviour gets "diluted".
As to the water changes, and the gravel removal, I'd agree that you've
delayed the proper cycling of the tank - doing 20% changes every 3 days
it'll never get a chance to settle down! Also, don't even think about
replacing your filter media yet...
Best of luck, & patience, patience! ;-)

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:25:46 GMT, "slylittlei"
wrote:

Rodney M muttered darkly:
I haven't had an aquarium since I was a kid but for the past 6 months
I have been reading the newsgroups and various books on tropical fish
and got the itch to get a tank going again. There was a 29 gallon
tank with stand at the LFS by my house that I really liked. My wife
surprised me on our 2 year anniversary and bought it for me. After
doing some research, I bought the following for it:

* Marineland Emperor 280 HOB filter with bio-wheel
* Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 submersible heater
* Estes' Ultra Reef black marine sand (says safe for fresh or salt
water)
* Couple of fake pieces of wood and plants

Here is a picture of my tank the night I filled it up with water for
the first time (the picture was taken before I setup the Emperor
filter):

http://www.debaser.net/v1.5/images/fish_tank.jpg

I conditioned the water with Jungle Water Safe Plus and let the tank
run for a couple of days. I tested my water with those Jungle 5 in 1
quick dip test strips and it showed the following: pH at 7.8,
alkalinity (KH) at 180ppm and hardness (GH) at 150ppm. I set the
heater to 76 and had it mounted on a 45 degree angle under the filter
near the bottom of the tank. I was having problems with the
temperature of the water moving up and down 1-2 degrees so I mounted
the heater vertically under the filter to the left a little and the
temperature stays right at 76 degrees now.

I decided I ultimately wanted to have a species tank with tiger barbs
so I picked up 3 green tiger barbs to cycle the tank. The fish were
loving the tank and having a good time. There was one that was
definately leader of the pack and would chase the other two around. I
should have been keeping a better eye on them because after about two
weeks, two of the barbs had there fins nipped really bad. One was so
bad that it's pelvic fins were just these white puffs and his caudal
fin was in rough shape too. The other one had his caudal fin nipped
but was still in ok shape. During these two weeks, I had been
checking my ammonia and nothing seemed to be showing up yet. My water
had a cloudy look to it which I believe was from the backteria
starting to grow. In fearing for my fish, I decided to get 3 albino
tiger barbs to add to the tank, thinking the leader of the pack would
have other fish to distract him. Unfortunately, it was too late and
the one green tiger barb with the bad pelvic fins died soon after. A
couple of days later, the other green tiger barb died. I decided I
didn't want my 3 albino's to suffer the same fate so I took out the
last green tiger barb out of the 29g tank.

Shortly after adding the 3 albino's, I started seeing my ammonia level
come up to about .25ppm. Around this same time, one of my albino's
got some kind of eye infection. His right eye was really cloudy and
enlarged. A couple of days later, he died. After I removed him from
the tank, I did my first water change, which was around 20%. This was
about 3 weeks after I initially setup the tank. At the same time, I
also removed quite a bit of the sand to get it down to about an inch
deep since I added too much initially. This probably wasn't a good
thing to do as I'm sure it set back my cycling.

I bought a Python to do my water changes and was doing a 20% water
changes every 3 days after the first water change. The first couple
water changes, I was adding the water directly to the tank and then
putting in a capful of AquaPlus to remove the chlorine. I felt like I
was wasting a ton of water with the Python and didn't really like the
idea of adding untreated tap water directly to the tank so I bought a
cheap syphon and a 5 gallon bucket to do water changes. I actually
like this alot better than the Python.

It's been 6 weeks since I initially setup my tank and it is only
showing somewhere between .25 and .50ppm of ammonia and no signs of
nitrite. My other levels are still the same (pH 7.8, KH 180ppm and GH
at 150ppm). The two remaining albino's seems to be doing fine, tho
one does get picked on by the other but I've been keeping an eye on
his fins and they are fine. They actually like it when I do water
changes and one of them swims right up to the hose as the water comes
into the tank. My water still has a faint cloudy look to it.

Should I continuing doing 20% water changes every 3 days until my tank
is cycled? I was talking to a guy who seemed knowledgeable at the LFS
tonight and he recommended I put some Hagen Cycle in my tank to help
speed up the cycling process and that I cut back on water changes to
once a week. What do you guys think? Also, should I replace the
filter in my Emperor? It's been 6 weeks and they say to change these
every month. I'm thinking I shouldn't since I don't want to possibly
delay my tank cycling even longer. Also, the bio-wheel still seems to
be moving pretty fast, no matter which way I turn the spray bar. It
doesn't seem to be too discolored yet either. Speaking of spray bar,
what position do you guys who have one of these filters put the spray
bar and does it really matter?

Sorry for the long winded post. I just wanted to make sure I included
enough info about what has been going on with my tank for the past 6
weeks. Any input would be appreciate. Thanks.

Rodney

I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies to this one Rodney, but here's my two
penn'orth:
IMHO you've made the common & understandable error of being a bit too keen
to get fish in there - I'd have waited for at least a couple of weeks before
introducing any fish at all, to give the tank a chance to cycle.

Everything that I've read says to start with a couple of hardy fish to
cycle your tank. How is the tank going to cycle with no fish (use
something like Cycle)?

If at all possible it's best to use some water / gravel / filter media from
an already established tank when setting up yours (I'm sure others will
expand on this theme).

Unfortunately this was something I couldn't do since I don't have any
friends with tanks and I'm not sure the LFS would be willing to give
me any fitler media or gravel from one of their tanks, tho I never did
ask them.

You obviously like Tiger barbs, but introducing such a small number was
probably not a great idea - they really need to be in a group of at least 6,
otherwise their natural nippy tendencies get concentrated on the weakest
link, as you saw - in a larger group, this behaviour gets "diluted".

Your right, I found this out the hard way.

As to the water changes, and the gravel removal, I'd agree that you've
delayed the proper cycling of the tank - doing 20% changes every 3 days
it'll never get a chance to settle down! Also, don't even think about
replacing your filter media yet...

So how often should I be doing water changes during the cycling
period, if at all? Do I wait for the ammonia levels to get high
before changing the water? Websites like
http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php say to do a 10%-15% water
change every couple of days during the cycling process.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/water/water.shtml says during the
cycling process, don't have many fish, feed sparingly and do lots of
water changes.

Best of luck, & patience, patience! ;-)

Thanks for the info and I'll continue to be patient. Take care.

Rodney

"Rodney M" wrote in message
...

I haven't had an aquarium since I was a kid but for the past 6 months
I have been reading the newsgroups and various books on tropical fish
and got the itch to get a tank going again. There was a 29 gallon
tank with stand at the LFS by my house that I really liked. My wife
surprised me on our 2 year anniversary and bought it for me. After
doing some research, I bought the following for it:

=====================brevity snip!

Sometimes a tank takes awhile to "cycle." Be patient. I have a 10g with 2
small goldfish that is taking forever to cycle even thought the filter has 2
"used and seeded" sponges in it. Other tanks with seeded sponges either
never show an ammonia surge, or show a very reading for a few days. Go
figure! :-)

As for the tiger barbs. You couldn't pay me to have this fish in any of my
tanks. You really need to purchase about 8 to 10 of them to keep them from
nipping each other to death. And they do get large if well fed and cared
for. If you really like them buy at least 10 and add them to your tank all
at the same time (after it cycles). Hope for the best. Watch for torn fins
and infection anyway........ good luck!
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Rodney M wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:25:46 GMT, "slylittlei"
wrote:


So how often should I be doing water changes during the cycling
period, if at all? Do I wait for the ammonia levels to get high
before changing the water? Websites like
http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php say to do a 10%-15% water
change every couple of days during the cycling process.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/water/water.shtml says during the
cycling process, don't have many fish, feed sparingly and do lots of
water changes.


Best of luck, & patience, patience! ;-)


Thanks for the info and I'll continue to be patient. Take care.

Rodney

I had cycling problems many years ago in setting up my 90 gallon
aquarium. I did not use test kits (no internet to recomend them) and
wasn't really aware of the cycling process, although the Hagen filter
literature described the nitrogen (handling) cycle. I went through green
and cloudy water. I also lost a couple of fish apparently due to
disease, but almost certainly from cycling stress.

I'll give my answer to your question, for what it's worth. By all means
do regular, even daily, partial water changes during the cycle if you
have fish and the ammonia or nitrite are approaching stressful/ harmful
levels. The water changes may help you keep conditions tolerable for the
fish, and the cycle should complete anyway.

Once my big aquarium settled down it became incredibly stable and
healthy. Good luck with yours !

Steve

Rodney M wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:25:46 GMT, "slylittlei"
wrote:

Rodney M muttered darkly:
I haven't had an aquarium since I was a kid but for the past 6 months
I have been reading the newsgroups and various books on tropical fish
and got the itch to get a tank going again. There was a 29 gallon
tank with stand at the LFS by my house that I really liked. My wife
surprised me on our 2 year anniversary and bought it for me. After
doing some research, I bought the following for it:

* Marineland Emperor 280 HOB filter with bio-wheel
* Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 submersible heater
* Estes' Ultra Reef black marine sand (says safe for fresh or salt
water)
* Couple of fake pieces of wood and plants

Here is a picture of my tank the night I filled it up with water for
the first time (the picture was taken before I setup the Emperor
filter):

http://www.debaser.net/v1.5/images/fish_tank.jpg

I conditioned the water with Jungle Water Safe Plus and let the tank
run for a couple of days. I tested my water with those Jungle 5 in 1
quick dip test strips and it showed the following: pH at 7.8,
alkalinity (KH) at 180ppm and hardness (GH) at 150ppm. I set the
heater to 76 and had it mounted on a 45 degree angle under the filter
near the bottom of the tank. I was having problems with the
temperature of the water moving up and down 1-2 degrees so I mounted
the heater vertically under the filter to the left a little and the
temperature stays right at 76 degrees now.

I decided I ultimately wanted to have a species tank with tiger barbs
so I picked up 3 green tiger barbs to cycle the tank. The fish were
loving the tank and having a good time. There was one that was
definately leader of the pack and would chase the other two around. I
should have been keeping a better eye on them because after about two
weeks, two of the barbs had there fins nipped really bad. One was so
bad that it's pelvic fins were just these white puffs and his caudal
fin was in rough shape too. The other one had his caudal fin nipped
but was still in ok shape. During these two weeks, I had been
checking my ammonia and nothing seemed to be showing up yet. My water
had a cloudy look to it which I believe was from the backteria
starting to grow. In fearing for my fish, I decided to get 3 albino
tiger barbs to add to the tank, thinking the leader of the pack would
have other fish to distract him. Unfortunately, it was too late and
the one green tiger barb with the bad pelvic fins died soon after. A
couple of days later, the other green tiger barb died. I decided I
didn't want my 3 albino's to suffer the same fate so I took out the
last green tiger barb out of the 29g tank.

Shortly after adding the 3 albino's, I started seeing my ammonia level
come up to about .25ppm. Around this same time, one of my albino's
got some kind of eye infection. His right eye was really cloudy and
enlarged. A couple of days later, he died. After I removed him from
the tank, I did my first water change, which was around 20%. This was
about 3 weeks after I initially setup the tank. At the same time, I
also removed quite a bit of the sand to get it down to about an inch
deep since I added too much initially. This probably wasn't a good
thing to do as I'm sure it set back my cycling.

I bought a Python to do my water changes and was doing a 20% water
changes every 3 days after the first water change. The first couple
water changes, I was adding the water directly to the tank and then
putting in a capful of AquaPlus to remove the chlorine. I felt like I
was wasting a ton of water with the Python and didn't really like the
idea of adding untreated tap water directly to the tank so I bought a
cheap syphon and a 5 gallon bucket to do water changes. I actually
like this alot better than the Python.

It's been 6 weeks since I initially setup my tank and it is only
showing somewhere between .25 and .50ppm of ammonia and no signs of
nitrite. My other levels are still the same (pH 7.8, KH 180ppm and GH
at 150ppm). The two remaining albino's seems to be doing fine, tho
one does get picked on by the other but I've been keeping an eye on
his fins and they are fine. They actually like it when I do water
changes and one of them swims right up to the hose as the water comes
into the tank. My water still has a faint cloudy look to it.

Should I continuing doing 20% water changes every 3 days until my tank
is cycled? I was talking to a guy who seemed knowledgeable at the LFS
tonight and he recommended I put some Hagen Cycle in my tank to help
speed up the cycling process and that I cut back on water changes to
once a week. What do you guys think? Also, should I replace the
filter in my Emperor? It's been 6 weeks and they say to change these
every month. I'm thinking I shouldn't since I don't want to possibly
delay my tank cycling even longer. Also, the bio-wheel still seems to
be moving pretty fast, no matter which way I turn the spray bar. It
doesn't seem to be too discolored yet either. Speaking of spray bar,
what position do you guys who have one of these filters put the spray
bar and does it really matter?

Sorry for the long winded post. I just wanted to make sure I included
enough info about what has been going on with my tank for the past 6
weeks. Any input would be appreciate. Thanks.

Rodney

I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies to this one Rodney, but here's my two
penn'orth:
IMHO you've made the common & understandable error of being a bit too keen
to get fish in there - I'd have waited for at least a couple of weeks before
introducing any fish at all, to give the tank a chance to cycle.

Everything that I've read says to start with a couple of hardy fish to
cycle your tank. How is the tank going to cycle with no fish (use
something like Cycle)?

If at all possible it's best to use some water / gravel / filter media from
an already established tank when setting up yours (I'm sure others will
expand on this theme).

Unfortunately this was something I couldn't do since I don't have any
friends with tanks and I'm not sure the LFS would be willing to give
me any fitler media or gravel from one of their tanks, tho I never did
ask them.

You obviously like Tiger barbs, but introducing such a small number was
probably not a great idea - they really need to be in a group of at least 6,
otherwise their natural nippy tendencies get concentrated on the weakest
link, as you saw - in a larger group, this behaviour gets "diluted".

Your right, I found this out the hard way.

As to the water changes, and the gravel removal, I'd agree that you've
delayed the proper cycling of the tank - doing 20% changes every 3 days
it'll never get a chance to settle down! Also, don't even think about
replacing your filter media yet...

So how often should I be doing water changes during the cycling
period, if at all? Do I wait for the ammonia levels to get high
before changing the water? Websites like
http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php say to do a 10%-15% water
change every couple of days during the cycling process.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/water/water.shtml says during the
cycling process, don't have many fish, feed sparingly and do lots of
water changes.

Best of luck, & patience, patience! ;-)

Thanks for the info and I'll continue to be patient. Take care.

Rodney


Everything that I've read says to start with a couple of hardy fish to
cycle your tank. How is the tank going to cycle with no fish (use
something like Cycle)?
The procuct Cycle is just going to waste your money, and not cycle your
tank. It's not even going to help it get started. One of those bogus
produtcs out there.
You can, however, use a product called Bio Spira to cycle a tank in 24
hours.
It's the only one with the correct bacteria in it. It also needs to be
kept inthe frige, so you do need to ask is they carry it. (It's not
always obvious if they have the frige in the backroom).
You can also fishless cycle using unscented, household ammonia (there's
a recipe and directions if you need it).
However, you can't do this since you already have the fish.
Call around for the BioSpira though. I believe you'll be be fine with
the 1 oz pack, but if they only have the 3oz, no problem. You can't use
too much, only too little.
As for the water changes during the cycling period..of course you still
do them. However, go to a once a week, 20% change. Now if the ammonia
levels are in a danger area, go to twice weekly, same %.
I'd leave to the gravel vacuuming until a couple weeks have passed.
The ammonia level would have increased anyway in your tank. Besides
being *in* the cycling period already, you added the Cories....putting
more strain on the nitrifying bacteria that were trying to grow numbers
to handle the bio load of the existing fish load..then you added the
Cories, bio load increased, not enough bacteria in the first place,
ammonia levels rise, fish stress and die easily.
This is what happens when cycling with fish, and adding more too soon.
Too late to say don't do that, but at least you are here asking how to
do things. = )
All you can do now is keep up with doing water changed during the
cycling period with the fish you already have.
The nirtrifying bacteria do not float in the water, they stick to all
the surfaces and gravel in the tank, so doing water changes isn't
going to remove them during the cycling period.
This is a common myth.... that if you remove any water during the
cycling, you're taking out too many of the bacteria colony. Not so.
They're the gooey stuff that you feel on the surfaces of everything in
the tank. That slimey stuff are the bacteria. During the cycling period
I only clean off the front glass. After the cycling period is over, I
also clean the rest of the tank walls during a normal water change.
Now, If you can find BioSpira, NO problem!
Just do a water change, add BioSpira, no problem. Your tank's good to
go in 24 hours.
However, that is the only product you can do that with.
The other products that do not work (wrong bacteria) StressZyme,
BioZyme, Cycle, and Kent has one out there too..so does Seachem.
If you have a PetLand near you, they seem to carry BioSpira the most.

Hi..

http://www.debaser.net/v1.5/images/fish_tank.jpg
[...]

Sorry, that photo shows IMHO no interior arrangement for
tiger barbs. A 29 gallon tank is IMHO the (lowest) limit to
keep tiger barbs at all. So you are limited to keep a small
group tiger barbs (5-7), only. In smaller groups hunting or
biting might be a problem.

They need space to swimm around, more interior or plants to
hide behind while playing hide an seek all day long.

The fish keeper's primary directive is to keep the fish
healthy.

Cyling a tank while keeping _fish_ (- worst case) means:
1: Daily NO2 tests
2: If NO2 == yes - change water, 60-80%, daily, as long as
NO2 is present. The swollen eye signals bad water.

NO2 or bacteria that cloud water means stress, and stress
weakens the immune system, so please remember to the fish
keeper's primary derective.. ;-)

Good luck!

cu
Marco

"Rodney M" wrote in message
...

I haven't had an aquarium since I was a kid but for the past 6 months
I have been reading the newsgroups and various books on tropical fish
and got the itch to get a tank going again. There was a 29 gallon
tank with stand at the LFS by my house that I really liked. My wife
surprised me on our 2 year anniversary and bought it for me. After
doing some research, I bought the following for it:

Welcome back to the hobby ).

* Marineland Emperor 280 HOB filter with bio-wheel
* Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 submersible heater
* Estes' Ultra Reef black marine sand (says safe for fresh or salt
water)
* Couple of fake pieces of wood and plants

Nothing too problematic in there. The Emp's filters are proprietary ($),
but the bio-wheel is a nice addition to the filtering process. The solid
colour of the gravel has some cosmetic issues, which you will have to decide
if they matter or not (solid colours show detritus more quickly).

Here is a picture of my tank the night I filled it up with water for
the first time (the picture was taken before I setup the Emperor
filter):

http://www.debaser.net/v1.5/images/fish_tank.jpg

Very nice.

I conditioned the water with Jungle Water Safe Plus and let the tank
run for a couple of days. I tested my water with those Jungle 5 in 1
quick dip test strips and it showed the following: pH at 7.8,
alkalinity (KH) at 180ppm and hardness (GH) at 150ppm. I set the
heater to 76 and had it mounted on a 45 degree angle under the filter
near the bottom of the tank. I was having problems with the
temperature of the water moving up and down 1-2 degrees so I mounted
the heater vertically under the filter to the left a little and the
temperature stays right at 76 degrees now.

ok, 76F, 7.8pH, 10dkH, 8dgH, left to outgass for a couple of days, sounds
good!!

I decided I ultimately wanted to have a species tank with tiger barbs
so I picked up 3 green tiger barbs to cycle the tank. The fish were
loving the tank and having a good time. There was one that was
definately leader of the pack and would chase the other two around. I
should have been keeping a better eye on them because after about two
weeks, two of the barbs had there fins nipped really bad. One was so
bad that it's pelvic fins were just these white puffs and his caudal
fin was in rough shape too. The other one had his caudal fin nipped
but was still in ok shape. During these two weeks, I had been
checking my ammonia and nothing seemed to be showing up yet. My water
had a cloudy look to it which I believe was from the backteria
starting to grow. In fearing for my fish, I decided to get 3 albino
tiger barbs to add to the tank, thinking the leader of the pack would
have other fish to distract him. Unfortunately, it was too late and
the one green tiger barb with the bad pelvic fins died soon after. A
couple of days later, the other green tiger barb died. I decided I
didn't want my 3 albino's to suffer the same fate so I took out the
last green tiger barb out of the 29g tank.

Shortly after adding the 3 albino's, I started seeing my ammonia level
come up to about .25ppm. Around this same time, one of my albino's
got some kind of eye infection. His right eye was really cloudy and
enlarged. A couple of days later, he died. After I removed him from
the tank, I did my first water change, which was around 20%. This was
about 3 weeks after I initially setup the tank. At the same time, I
also removed quite a bit of the sand to get it down to about an inch
deep since I added too much initially. This probably wasn't a good
thing to do as I'm sure it set back my cycling.

Probably not too badly. Your problem is cycling and settling in.

I bought a Python to do my water changes and was doing a 20% water
changes every 3 days after the first water change. The first couple
water changes, I was adding the water directly to the tank and then
putting in a capful of AquaPlus to remove the chlorine. I felt like I
was wasting a ton of water with the Python and didn't really like the
idea of adding untreated tap water directly to the tank so I bought a
cheap syphon and a 5 gallon bucket to do water changes. I actually
like this alot better than the Python.

Having used both, there is definitely pros/cons to either system.

It's been 6 weeks since I initially setup my tank and it is only
showing somewhere between .25 and .50ppm of ammonia and no signs of
nitrite. My other levels are still the same (pH 7.8, KH 180ppm and GH
at 150ppm). The two remaining albino's seems to be doing fine, tho
one does get picked on by the other but I've been keeping an eye on
his fins and they are fine. They actually like it when I do water
changes and one of them swims right up to the hose as the water comes
into the tank. My water still has a faint cloudy look to it.

Until your ammonia/nitrite is zero, I wouldn't worry about the cloudiness.
You frequent water changes are keeping the ammonia levels low (good), and I
really don't think will affect the cycling. I think the presence of ammonia
causes the bacteria to reproduce, not the concentration. There are actually
situations when growth is negatively affected by concentrations being too
high.

Should I continuing doing 20% water changes every 3 days until my tank
is cycled? I was talking to a guy who seemed knowledgeable at the LFS
tonight and he recommended I put some Hagen Cycle in my tank to help
speed up the cycling process and that I cut back on water changes to
once a week. What do you guys think?

Yes (on water changes) and the Hagen Cycle is up to you. It is better than
nothing, but a bit slow (in my experience, and assuming they haven't changed
the formula in the last 1-1/2 years). Your basic problem is that the tank
is cycling very slowly, which drags it out, but if you don't mind then the
fish won't either. The water changes keeps everything to safer low
concentrations (imho).

Also, should I replace the
filter in my Emperor? It's been 6 weeks and they say to change these
every month. I'm thinking I shouldn't since I don't want to possibly
delay my tank cycling even longer.

As long as water travels through the filter, I would not mess with it, other
than to give it a quick rinse in tank water in a pail.

Also, the bio-wheel still seems to
be moving pretty fast, no matter which way I turn the spray bar. It
doesn't seem to be too discolored yet either. Speaking of spray bar,
what position do you guys who have one of these filters put the spray
bar and does it really matter?

Spray bar orientation is very application specific, either to keep the
surface clear of the protein layer which can accumulate, or to direct the
water in a circulation pattern to keep the temperature uniform, or to
provide or isolate fish which like/dislike water turbulence.

Sorry for the long winded post. I just wanted to make sure I included
enough info about what has been going on with my tank for the past 6
weeks. Any input would be appreciate. Thanks.

Doesn't sound like you are doing too too badly, considering the trouble
brand new tanks can cause. Some of your barb problems might have been
outside of your control (weak stock) and partially to tank size. I've run
Tiger barb species tanks (and they were great), but I'd used a 60g tank. A
30g might be manageable with enough hiding spots, dither, and starting with
about 6-8 small Tigers. They are not an easy fish to manage sometimes.
--
www.NetMax.tk


Rodney

slylittlei wrote:

I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies to this one Rodney, but here's my two
penn'orth:
IMHO you've made the common & understandable error of being a bit too keen
to get fish in there - I'd have waited for at least a couple of weeks before
introducing any fish at all, to give the tank a chance to cycle.
If at all possible it's best to use some water / gravel / filter media from
an already established tank when setting up yours (I'm sure others will
expand on this theme).

Not adding fish to a tank for a couple of weeks is a common myth. Tanks
without a source of ammonia (fish) and a source of nitrifying bacteria
(often the fishes slimecoat) do not cycle. Seeding from an established
tank works great, but any bacteria added on gravel/filter media without
an ammonia source will die in a matter of hours to days. You can try to
cycle fishless, but judging by what I've read here, it's not as reliable
as one would hope.

It is good to set up a new tank for a day or two before adding fish to
check for leaks, make sure the filter works right, and stabilize the
temperature. Once you are sure the equipment works, add any bacteria
(from another tank or purchased) and fish at the same time.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:06:37 -0500, NetMax wrote:

Also, should I replace the
filter in my Emperor? It's been 6 weeks and they say to change these
every month. I'm thinking I shouldn't since I don't want to possibly
delay my tank cycling even longer.

As long as water travels through the filter, I would not mess with it,
other than to give it a quick rinse in tank water in a pail.

But if you've got carbon in there, take it out and toss it. It really
isn't needed and will do more ham than good if left in too long.