live food for africans?

I know that Africans of Lake Malawi should eat a diet of predominantly alga or
vegetable based food to avoid bloat. My question is whether anyone has
suggestions or advice on feeding blood worms and other live foods to them as a
supplement/conditioning food? Any advice? I just bought some frozen blood
worms. My frontosas in the other tank love them. Are they good for Mbuna?

On 06 Aug 2003 21:28:16 GMT, (Zimm44) wrote:

I know that Africans of Lake Malawi should eat a diet of predominantly alga or
vegetable based food to avoid bloat. My question is whether anyone has
suggestions or advice on feeding blood worms and other live foods to them as a
supplement/conditioning food? Any advice? I just bought some frozen blood
worms. My frontosas in the other tank love them. Are they good for Mbuna?

Most of the common Lake Malawi cichlids are Mbuna and most Mbuna are
algae eater. As such they should be fed on algae or other vegetable
foods. However, some Mbuna are not algae eaters and many Malawi other
than Mbuna have totally different food requirements. Malawi cichlids
vary from microplankton eaters to super efficient predators and so a
general diet does not exist.

Frontosas will do well on pellets with some fresh live food but the
amount of blood worm should be restricted. Adult frontosa would eat
blood worm by the pound if they could get it but it's not a good diet.


Steve

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Thanks Steve. I hear ya on the predator thing. My comprecisseps are in constant
lunge for the smaller fish in the Malawi tank. It's scary to watch their
stealth and speed. Anyway is there a type of live food you would suggest as a
treat or conditioning food instead of blood worms? Any tricks to encourage
breeding?

Zim

In article ,
(Zimm44) wrote:

I know that Africans of Lake Malawi should eat a diet of predominantly
alga or
vegetable based food to avoid bloat. My question is whether anyone has
suggestions or advice on feeding blood worms and other live foods to
them as a
supplement/conditioning food? Any advice? I just bought some frozen
blood
worms. My frontosas in the other tank love them. Are they good for
Mbuna?


I thought this was an interesting debate until I saw the BBC/Someone* Wild
Africa program "Lakes and Rivers" which showed the Midge hatch over Lake
Malawi. Quick pan to under water - everything with fins going frantic
eating the blood worm pupae as they rose to the surface. Various
Pseudotropheus & Labeotrophues in there with the rest.

I've also seen a Scientific article on stomach content analysis of wild
caught Mbuna, lots of Algae, but lots of insect larvae too. The author
suspected that the insect larvae were picked up with the algae, rather
than separate from it.

So nature says it's OK. The mistake people make is Cichlid = Carnivore so
meaty diet, whereas for the Mbuna have a mostly vegetable diet. Nothing
wrong with adding a few bloodworm etc though.

* Something was a US co. might have been Discovery Channel

Roger Sleet
Roger's Aquatic Pages http://www.sleet.plus.com

Isn't feeding live bait a way of introducing bacteria etc into the tank.
Seems like the cons outway the pros? Fish can thrive on dried food so why
mess with what works? I put new fish in an isolation tank before risking
exposing my big tank to disease. Why throw live food in? Just wondering?

In article ,
says...
In article ,
(Zimm44) wrote:

I know that Africans of Lake Malawi should eat a diet of predominantly
alga or
vegetable based food to avoid bloat. My question is whether anyone has
suggestions or advice on feeding blood worms and other live foods to
them as a
supplement/conditioning food? Any advice? I just bought some frozen
blood
worms. My frontosas in the other tank love them. Are they good for
Mbuna?


I thought this was an interesting debate until I saw the BBC/Someone* Wild
Africa program "Lakes and Rivers" which showed the Midge hatch over Lake
Malawi. Quick pan to under water - everything with fins going frantic
eating the blood worm pupae as they rose to the surface. Various
Pseudotropheus & Labeotrophues in there with the rest.

I've also seen a Scientific article on stomach content analysis of wild
caught Mbuna, lots of Algae, but lots of insect larvae too. The author
suspected that the insect larvae were picked up with the algae, rather
than separate from it.

So nature says it's OK. The mistake people make is Cichlid = Carnivore so
meaty diet, whereas for the Mbuna have a mostly vegetable diet. Nothing
wrong with adding a few bloodworm etc though.

* Something was a US co. might have been Discovery Channel

Roger Sleet
Roger's Aquatic Pages http://www.sleet.plus.com

In article ,
(Bchbound) wrote:

Isn't feeding live bait a way of introducing bacteria etc into the
tank. Seems like the cons outway the pros? Fish can thrive on dried
food so why mess with what works? I put new fish in an isolation tank
before risking exposing my big tank to disease. Why throw live food in?
Just wondering?

Breathing near the tank is a way of introducing bacteria.

You only deed to worry about obligate pathogens. So long as the live food
doesn't come from anywhere that contains live fish, it can contain no
obligate fish pathogens. Having said that I occasionally remove midge
larvae from the Koi pond to give to my tropicals, so far without dire
effects.

Roger Sleet
Roger's Aquatic Pages http://www.sleet.plus.com

"Bchbound" wrote in message
...
Isn't feeding live bait a way of introducing bacteria etc into the
tank.
Seems like the cons outway the pros? Fish can thrive on dried food so
why
mess with what works? I put new fish in an isolation tank before
risking
exposing my big tank to disease. Why throw live food in? Just
wondering?

Yes, in many live foods the risk of parasites can be higher than with
many of the other options. These days the only live food I use with any
regularity is Blackworms I get from California. I order a pound at a
time and keep them in a dedicated refridgerator (my kid left his little
one behind).

Here is a link to a site where you can read up on it:

http://www.aquaticfoods.com/worms.html

I am not affiliated with this site.



In article ,
says...
In article ,

(Zimm44) wrote:

I know that Africans of Lake Malawi should eat a diet of
predominantly
alga or
vegetable based food to avoid bloat. My question is whether anyone
has
suggestions or advice on feeding blood worms and other live foods
to
them as a
supplement/conditioning food? Any advice? I just bought some
frozen
blood
worms. My frontosas in the other tank love them. Are they good for
Mbuna?


I thought this was an interesting debate until I saw the
BBC/Someone* Wild
Africa program "Lakes and Rivers" which showed the Midge hatch over
Lake
Malawi. Quick pan to under water - everything with fins going
frantic
eating the blood worm pupae as they rose to the surface. Various
Pseudotropheus & Labeotrophues in there with the rest.

I've also seen a Scientific article on stomach content analysis of
wild
caught Mbuna, lots of Algae, but lots of insect larvae too. The
author
suspected that the insect larvae were picked up with the algae,
rather
than separate from it.

So nature says it's OK. The mistake people make is Cichlid =
Carnivore so
meaty diet, whereas for the Mbuna have a mostly vegetable diet.
Nothing
wrong with adding a few bloodworm etc though.

* Something was a US co. might have been Discovery Channel

Roger Sleet
Roger's Aquatic Pages http://www.sleet.plus.com

when you post a question like the one you posted the so called experts
come crawling out of the cracks to give advice.

i have been keeping fish for over 30 years and have had a small animal
practice for 20 years. i do know a little about fish and i will tell
you that giving your fish a live treat of brine shrimp or chopped worms
(or whatever) is O.K. i treat my 240 gallon malawi tank about once
every other week with live brine shrimp. in the wild they eat other
things besides algae. i have been to africa twice and actually watched
the fish in their natural habitat.

take everything you read here with a grain of salt.......

Randy PhxVet wrote:
i have been keeping fish for over 30 years and have had a small animal
practice for 20 years. i do know a little about fish and i will tell
you that giving your fish a live treat of brine shrimp or chopped worms
(or whatever) is O.K. i treat my 240 gallon malawi tank about once
every other week with live brine shrimp. in the wild they eat other
things besides algae. i have been to africa twice and actually watched
the fish in their natural habitat.

I feel the need to clarify as I feel you're directing this post to me. If
you re-read my posts, you will note that I often said that occasional
ingestion of insects or the like should not cause issue as in the wild
these are occasionally eaten along with the algae. My posts were in
response to another who seemed to be advocating a high protein/fat diet
instead of a primarily herbivorous diet, which I do not feel would be in
the best interest of the fish. I am an advocate of trying to replicate the
feeding habits and diet that the fish would have in the wild. In the case
of algae eaters, this would mean a herbivorous diet with the occasional
"treat" of things like brine shrimp or daphnia would most replicate their
natural diet. I'd also say treats of algae covered rocks would be welcome
as then they could practice their feeding habits as well. Since the pet
food industry makes it easy to replicate herbivorous diets with various
spirulina products and so on, I don't see any reason not to do it (as
opposed to say a mollusc eating fish, where it might be difficult to find
sufficient snails/molluscs to feed without breaking the bank, so one has
to settle for a flake food substitute not really based on a mollusc
eater's wild diet).

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
Randy PhxVet wrote:
i have been keeping fish for over 30 years and have had a small
animal
practice for 20 years. i do know a little about fish and i will
tell
you that giving your fish a live treat of brine shrimp or chopped
worms
(or whatever) is O.K. i treat my 240 gallon malawi tank about once
every other week with live brine shrimp. in the wild they eat other
things besides algae. i have been to africa twice and actually
watched
the fish in their natural habitat.

I feel the need to clarify as I feel you're directing this post to me.
If
you re-read my posts, you will note that I often said that occasional
ingestion of insects or the like should not cause issue as in the wild
these are occasionally eaten along with the algae. My posts were in
response to another who seemed to be advocating a high protein/fat
diet
instead of a primarily herbivorous diet, which I do not feel would be
in
the best interest of the fish. I am an advocate of trying to replicate
the
feeding habits and diet that the fish would have in the wild. In the
case
of algae eaters, this would mean a herbivorous diet with the
occasional
"treat" of things like brine shrimp or daphnia would most replicate
their
natural diet. I'd also say treats of algae covered rocks would be
welcome
as then they could practice their feeding habits as well. Since the
pet
food industry makes it easy to replicate herbivorous diets with
various
spirulina products and so on, I don't see any reason not to do it (as
opposed to say a mollusc eating fish, where it might be difficult to
find
sufficient snails/molluscs to feed without breaking the bank, so one
has
to settle for a flake food substitute not really based on a mollusc
eater's wild diet).

I do not recall anyone advocating a high protein/fat diet at all. I do
recall folks advocating a herbivore only diet, which is probably not at
all a factual diet in the wild. Seems like you were a cheerleader for
the latter.

Glad to see you see the light now...