SAE temperature tolerances

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room temp
hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The tank
temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...
My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The
tank temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?
===========================
If the water change was large and the new water of very different PH and
Hardness that could cause a problem with many fish. My goldfish are much
more sensitive to massive water changes than my plecos and otos for example.
I try not to let a PWC go more than 2 weeks, 3 at the most.

Others have other views.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Köi-Lö" $##$$@$##$$.#$$ wrote in message
...

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...
My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been
leaving the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further
losses. The tank temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?
===========================
If the water change was large and the new water of very different PH and
Hardness that could cause a problem with many fish. My goldfish are much
more sensitive to massive water changes than my plecos and otos for
example. I try not to let a PWC go more than 2 weeks, 3 at the most.


I'm thinking it was some kind of Osmotic Shock too, although the PH should
have been close. They were overdue for a change, so perhaps the DOCs were
getting too high. Nitrates etc, are never a problem in this tank due to the
high plant load.

"Bill Stock" wrote in
:

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

SAEs aren't too fussy with pH or hardness, so if other fish are ok, changes
in those didn't kill it. "Office tanks" are often small, and a small tank +
hight water temperature mean too often low oxygen level. SAEs come from
flowing rivers and they are often the first fish to die when oxygen level
gets low. I have killed two SAEs by having a internal filter fall to the
bottom of a tank during a hot summer day: no surface movement, oxygen level
low. SAEs died, a bristlenose pleco (also needs lots of oxygen) was gasping
for air and just managed to survive but other fish (some bettas and
synodontis) weren't affected.

Also some medications might make the oxygen level temporarily lower than
normal. Somebody I know lost a school of SAEs after medicating a big tank
with something which probably affected the amount of oxygen in water.

Liisa

On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 19:49:55 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room temp
hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The tank
temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?


I have 15 SAEs in 3 tanks. The 29 gallon tank is always a heat
problem in the summer. The thermometer alarm is set to 82F and it has
gone off. 81F is pretty normal in this tank.

As for laying on the bottom and fast breathing, this strikes me as
normal behavior. If they were swimming at the top (other than feeding
time g) I would be worried.

I wonder if this is mostly coincidence as you report only 1 of your
SAEs died. Perhaps it was not well and the rapid changes in
temperature were more than it could handle. Fish do die.

I quit aeration over a year ago due to the mineral deposits. I have
seen no related problems, even with the single SAE in a 10 gallon
tank. My tanks are planted and have filtration.

I do 20% water changes twice weekly with no chemicals added. I take
the water straight from the tap, so my water conditions are pretty
stable other than temperature.

I have had my SAEs over 3 years and lost only one in the second year.
It gave no forewarning. I woke one morning with it dead on the
gravel. No visual cues to suggest cause of death.

dick

Bill Stock wrote:
My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room temp
hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max temp?

I think SAE are fine at 28°C (even 30°C+), as long as O2 content is
sufficient. Saying that, my tank with 5 SAE are surviving extremely low
oxygen levels during the night, less than 4ppm O2. I can see their gills
moving more rapidly, but they are fine. I've had no casualties when I've
even had 2ppm O2 for short periods.

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The tank
temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?


I reckon the poor SAE picked up an infection, maybe through the water
change, exacerbated by a lower O2 content.

Nikki

"Liisa Sarakontu" wrote in message
6...
"Bill Stock" wrote in
:

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

SAEs aren't too fussy with pH or hardness, so if other fish are ok,
changes
in those didn't kill it. "Office tanks" are often small, and a small tank
+
hight water temperature mean too often low oxygen level. SAEs come from
flowing rivers and they are often the first fish to die when oxygen level
gets low. I have killed two SAEs by having a internal filter fall to the
bottom of a tank during a hot summer day: no surface movement, oxygen
level
low. SAEs died, a bristlenose pleco (also needs lots of oxygen) was
gasping
for air and just managed to survive but other fish (some bettas and
synodontis) weren't affected.

Also some medications might make the oxygen level temporarily lower than
normal. Somebody I know lost a school of SAEs after medicating a big tank
with something which probably affected the amount of oxygen in water.

Liisa

Thanks Liisa,

The circulation in this tank (10 g) was on the low side. I have a small
Whisper filter that WAS really dirty when I did the water change. But even
when it's working at full capacity it doesn't move too much water.The Sword
jungle doesn't help matters either.

I'm going to add a small bubble wall and hope that the algae doesn't take
over. The current air stone and pump are way too much agitation. Although
the remaining SAEs seem to like swimming through it.

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 19:49:55 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp
hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The
tank
temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?


I have 15 SAEs in 3 tanks. The 29 gallon tank is always a heat
problem in the summer. The thermometer alarm is set to 82F and it has
gone off. 81F is pretty normal in this tank.

What are you using for a temp alarm? Both of my digital heaters (display
only) died recently on two other tanks. Heaters still work accurately, but
the temp readout is kaput. So I need to replace them both.

As for laying on the bottom and fast breathing, this strikes me as
normal behavior. If they were swimming at the top (other than feeding
time g) I would be worried.

I wonder if this is mostly coincidence as you report only 1 of your
SAEs died. Perhaps it was not well and the rapid changes in
temperature were more than it could handle. Fish do die.

Quite possibly.

I quit aeration over a year ago due to the mineral deposits. I have
seen no related problems, even with the single SAE in a 10 gallon
tank. My tanks are planted and have filtration.

My bigger concern is algae.

I do 20% water changes twice weekly with no chemicals added. I take
the water straight from the tap, so my water conditions are pretty
stable other than temperature.

I remove about 50% of the water every twoish weeks and add temperature
matched dechlorinated water & fertilizers back.

I have had my SAEs over 3 years and lost only one in the second year.
It gave no forewarning. I woke one morning with it dead on the
gravel. No visual cues to suggest cause of death.

I've lost three now, one jumped out of his holding tank when I bought him,
one disappeared without a trace from the larger tropical tank and now this
one.

"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...
Bill Stock wrote:
My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

I think SAE are fine at 28°C (even 30°C+), as long as O2 content is
sufficient. Saying that, my tank with 5 SAE are surviving extremely low
oxygen levels during the night, less than 4ppm O2. I can see their gills
moving more rapidly, but they are fine. I've had no casualties when I've
even had 2ppm O2 for short periods.

What are you measuring O2 levels with Nikki? I've always been curious, but I
thought these toys were rather expensive.


I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been
leaving the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further
losses. The tank temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?

I reckon the poor SAE picked up an infection, maybe through the water
change, exacerbated by a lower O2 content.

Nikki

Bill Stock wrote:
"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...

Bill Stock wrote:

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

I think SAE are fine at 28°C (even 30°C+), as long as O2 content is
sufficient. Saying that, my tank with 5 SAE are surviving extremely low
oxygen levels during the night, less than 4ppm O2. I can see their gills
moving more rapidly, but they are fine. I've had no casualties when I've
even had 2ppm O2 for short periods.


What are you measuring O2 levels with Nikki? I've always been curious, but I
thought these toys were rather expensive.

It's one of Hanna's that gives a digital read-out. Expensive, possibly,
as far as toys go. But numbers give me comfort. It has been extremely
useful in understanding many situations. Running a CO2 injected tank
with no surface turbulence whatsoever gives me cause for concern,
especially with the recent heat. Also, with an ongoing issue with an
angel fish that has been breathing rapidly for the last two weeks, one
thing I can do is exclude the possibility of lack of oxygen.

Nikki