SAE temperature tolerances

"Bill Stock" wrote in
:

in this tank (10 g)

SAEs and this small tanks are not a good combination. SAEs grow easily up
to 5" or even longer, and they prefer to live in a big enough group. A 10g
tank is suitable as a short-time quarantine, but not as a permanent housing
for this fast swimmer.

I recommend you to find a bigger home for your remaining SAE. If you need a
good, small algae eater for a 10g tank with no strong water circulation,
think about pit bull pleco. It is small, it can tolerate rather high
temperature and it doesn't need as much oxygen as for example Otocinclus
catfish.

Liisa

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:47:44 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:


"Liisa Sarakontu" wrote in message
16...
"Bill Stock" wrote in
:

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

SAEs aren't too fussy with pH or hardness, so if other fish are ok,
changes
in those didn't kill it. "Office tanks" are often small, and a small tank
+
hight water temperature mean too often low oxygen level. SAEs come from
flowing rivers and they are often the first fish to die when oxygen level
gets low. I have killed two SAEs by having a internal filter fall to the
bottom of a tank during a hot summer day: no surface movement, oxygen
level
low. SAEs died, a bristlenose pleco (also needs lots of oxygen) was
gasping
for air and just managed to survive but other fish (some bettas and
synodontis) weren't affected.

Also some medications might make the oxygen level temporarily lower than
normal. Somebody I know lost a school of SAEs after medicating a big tank
with something which probably affected the amount of oxygen in water.

Liisa

Thanks Liisa,

The circulation in this tank (10 g) was on the low side. I have a small
Whisper filter that WAS really dirty when I did the water change. But even
when it's working at full capacity it doesn't move too much water.The Sword
jungle doesn't help matters either.

I'm going to add a small bubble wall and hope that the algae doesn't take
over. The current air stone and pump are way too much agitation. Although
the remaining SAEs seem to like swimming through it.


My 10 gal with the single SAE uses the Whisper Jr. filter with no
aeration.

dick

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 18:31:31 GMT, Liisa Sarakontu
wrote:

"Bill Stock" wrote in
:

in this tank (10 g)

SAEs and this small tanks are not a good combination. SAEs grow easily up
to 5" or even longer, and they prefer to live in a big enough group. A 10g
tank is suitable as a short-time quarantine, but not as a permanent housing
for this fast swimmer.

I recommend you to find a bigger home for your remaining SAE. If you need a
good, small algae eater for a 10g tank with no strong water circulation,
think about pit bull pleco. It is small, it can tolerate rather high
temperature and it doesn't need as much oxygen as for example Otocinclus
catfish.

Liisa

My SAE in the 10 gallon tank lives with 2 Clown Loaches and Platties.
All are about 5 inches and seem just as colorful, lively, and healthy
as their 9 brethern in a 75 gallon tank.

It sure is frustrating to read about what isn't good when daily my
fish enjoy the same setting that is sooo undesirable. They have been
living in this "awful" condition for 3 years. They have yet to turn
down a meal or, worse yet, die.

The SAE and the 2 Clowns in the 10 gal swim together just as the 9
SAEs and 6 Clowns in the 75 gallon. I have a 29 gallon with a mix
which includes Clowns and SAEs. I just see no problem I can associate
with the 10 gallon tank.

dick



dick

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:56:27 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 19:49:55 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:

My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp
hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The
tank
temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?


I have 15 SAEs in 3 tanks. The 29 gallon tank is always a heat
problem in the summer. The thermometer alarm is set to 82F and it has
gone off. 81F is pretty normal in this tank.

What are you using for a temp alarm? Both of my digital heaters (display
only) died recently on two other tanks. Heaters still work accurately, but
the temp readout is kaput. So I need to replace them both.

As for laying on the bottom and fast breathing, this strikes me as
normal behavior. If they were swimming at the top (other than feeding
time g) I would be worried.

I wonder if this is mostly coincidence as you report only 1 of your
SAEs died. Perhaps it was not well and the rapid changes in
temperature were more than it could handle. Fish do die.

Quite possibly.

I quit aeration over a year ago due to the mineral deposits. I have
seen no related problems, even with the single SAE in a 10 gallon
tank. My tanks are planted and have filtration.

My bigger concern is algae.

I do 20% water changes twice weekly with no chemicals added. I take
the water straight from the tap, so my water conditions are pretty
stable other than temperature.

I remove about 50% of the water every twoish weeks and add temperature
matched dechlorinated water & fertilizers back.

I have had my SAEs over 3 years and lost only one in the second year.
It gave no forewarning. I woke one morning with it dead on the
gravel. No visual cues to suggest cause of death.

I've lost three now, one jumped out of his holding tank when I bought him,
one disappeared without a trace from the larger tropical tank and now this
one.

My 10 gallon gets indirect sun so it also gets some algae. However,
as my plants grow, the algae grows less. I have grown stingy with the
food flakes as well.

I have "Lifeguard" digital themometers on my 5 tanks. A bit
expensive, but the alarms have saved my tanks several times over the 3
years. One time, one of them got a dunking in the water. I dried it
out and it is still working. The "Big Digital" shows room temp as
well as tank temp and the hi-lo temp alarm. I think I paid about
$35US.

I have never lost an SAE do to jumping, but my tanks are pretty tight.
They all make fast runs from bottom to tank top at times.

I am a terrible chemist. I lost 5 fish in a few minutes when I put
too much chemical in trying to lower the pH. I don't add any
chemicals because, I fear, once you start, you are commited to
continuing. Perhaps you trust yourself more than I trust myself.

One of my early miss-takes was not having plants that were compatible
with my lighting. Now I have only "low light" plants and those are
ones that have survived in my tanks from an early assorted "low light"
selection.

My first year saw many mistakes, many losses, but after over 3 years
my 5 tanks are very stable. I have 3 ten gallon tanks and they are
easy to maintain. They have good plant growth and for the last 2
years very healthy.

dick

"Liisa Sarakontu" wrote in message
6...
"Bill Stock" wrote in
:

in this tank (10 g)

SAEs and this small tanks are not a good combination. SAEs grow easily up
to 5" or even longer, and they prefer to live in a big enough group. A 10g
tank is suitable as a short-time quarantine, but not as a permanent
housing
for this fast swimmer.


Thanks Liisa,

I've actually got 3 SAEs left in the 10 g along with 3 Otos and 5 Cherry
Barbs. A lot of fish I know, but water parameters are never a problem in
this tank. My 55 gallon tends to accumulate more Nitrates (10 ppm) than my
10 g. Both are heavily planted, but the 55 has CO2.

The original plan was to move two of the SAEs to join there two friends in
the 55 gallon, but everyone has been so 'happy' that I did not want to mess
with success. Plus the Barbs in the larger tank can be aggressive, having
killed two of their own kind.

I can't say I've noticed any difference between the SAEs in the two tanks,
although perhaps the 10g SAEs are a little more skittish. The SAEs are the
only fish in the 10g that know when it's feeding time. They don't beg like
my GF in my other tank/pond, but they definately get excited about their
food. :-)

A 29 would be nice for the office, but then I'd need a stronger desk.






I recommend you to find a bigger home for your remaining SAE. If you need
a
good, small algae eater for a 10g tank with no strong water circulation,
think about pit bull pleco. It is small, it can tolerate rather high
temperature and it doesn't need as much oxygen as for example Otocinclus
catfish.

Liisa

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:56:27 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:

One of my early miss-takes was not having plants that were compatible
with my lighting. Now I have only "low light" plants and those are
ones that have survived in my tanks from an early assorted "low light"
selection.

Yes, I'vd had problems keeping live plants in my tank. I thought it was
due to low ammomia/nitrates AND low lighting. The tank does, however,
manage to have the right conditions for algae. I change 20% weekly.
What plants should I ask about that would favor a low lit setting?

Thanks, -ED

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

remember to dechlorinate?


"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...
My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The
tank temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?

Yep, although my Chlorine is normally so low, that it would not normally
make a difference.


"swarvegorilla" wrote in message
u...
remember to dechlorinate?


"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...
My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been
leaving the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further
losses. The tank temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 16:55:33 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:


"Liisa Sarakontu" wrote in message
16...
"Bill Stock" wrote in
:

in this tank (10 g)

SAEs and this small tanks are not a good combination. SAEs grow easily up
to 5" or even longer, and they prefer to live in a big enough group. A 10g
tank is suitable as a short-time quarantine, but not as a permanent
housing
for this fast swimmer.


Thanks Liisa,

I've actually got 3 SAEs left in the 10 g along with 3 Otos and 5 Cherry
Barbs. A lot of fish I know, but water parameters are never a problem in
this tank. My 55 gallon tends to accumulate more Nitrates (10 ppm) than my
10 g. Both are heavily planted, but the 55 has CO2.

The original plan was to move two of the SAEs to join there two friends in
the 55 gallon, but everyone has been so 'happy' that I did not want to mess
with success. Plus the Barbs in the larger tank can be aggressive, having
killed two of their own kind.

I can't say I've noticed any difference between the SAEs in the two tanks,
although perhaps the 10g SAEs are a little more skittish. The SAEs are the
only fish in the 10g that know when it's feeding time. They don't beg like
my GF in my other tank/pond, but they definately get excited about their
food. :-)

A 29 would be nice for the office, but then I'd need a stronger desk.



I had to laugh as I read your "feeding time" comment. I think SAEs
must have an internal alarm. As to skittish, the one SAE in my 10
gallon is never skittish, whereas one of the two Clown Loaches heads
for her ornamental home if I come close, the other Clown sticks around
to see what is happening.

During the first 2 years I had my SAEs, the 9 in the 75 gallon tank
would surrond my arm when I was cleaning the tank. They nibbled and
it tickled. I looked forward to their attention. One day it all
stopped. I was chasing platties, determined to separate the girls
from the boys. I had it with fry. I think the chasing spooked the
SAEs. I sure miss their attention.

I agree with you, don't mess with success. If I had listened to all
the cautions regarding Clown Loaches and SAEs, I would have missed out
on a lot of pleasure. I understand some people have gotten the large
ones. I haven't and based on my 10, 29 and 75 gallon tanks, I believe
neither tank size nor feeding makes the difference. My smallest Clown
is in the 75 gallon, the smallest SAE in the 29 gal.

dick



I recommend you to find a bigger home for your remaining SAE. If you need
a
good, small algae eater for a 10g tank with no strong water circulation,
think about pit bull pleco. It is small, it can tolerate rather high
temperature and it doesn't need as much oxygen as for example Otocinclus
catfish.

Liisa

On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 14:45:00 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
wrote:

remember to dechlorinate?

I quit trying to dechlorinate, I am not a good chemist and fear my
carelessness more than the tap water. I gather some community water
definitely requires dechlorination, however not all. Rather than
"remember to dechlorinate" I would suggest checking with your local
water supplier first. You may get by ok without. Also, frequent,
small changes may work as the small changes would be diluted more than
large changes.

I am a great believer in "keep it simple." The simpler my maintenance
routine, the more likely it will get done. Elimenating chemistry
makes for safer tanks around me.

dick


"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...
My office tank has been running a little hot lately (82-84+) . The room
temp hovers around 28°C at the moment, so the SAEs are near their max
temp?

I did a water change recently and matched the input temp to the existing
tank temp. The next night I saw an SAE lying on the bottom breathing
rapidly. I turned the light off, added extra aeration and (slowly) cooled
the water slightly, but the SAE was gone within an hour. I've been leaving
the lights off and left the added aeration, with no further losses. The
tank temp has dropped to around 80 or less.

I'm more inclined to suspect something funky about the water change, but
could the marginal temps be the primary factor?