Confessions of a goldfish serial killer.

Dear all,

by the looks of things this group is inundated with first-timers like me who
jump in looking for the answer to a question then jump out, so apologies to
any of the regulars here for my bluntness. Anyway, I have two pressing
questions that I think people here might be able to help, but first I'll
fill you in on the history of my fishkeeping disasters.

1. My friend buys me 2 goldfish as a joke, I buy a cheap acrylic tank with
ultra basic filter to put them in and buy a Black Moor to go with them, so
they're in the tank straightaway.

2. I start learning all the basics of keeping fish healthy, start changing
the water weekly and adding bacteria to the tank.

3. Unfortunately I have been changing the water from the top of the tank
using a ladle, I've been overfeeding the fish, and genuinely had no idea. I
find the two goldfish floating upside down dead and when I test the water
the nitrate and nitrite levels are through the ROOF. This leaves me with a
Black Moor who at this stage probably has a liver like an alcoholic's, so I
decant him and clean out the tank.

4. I drop the tank - it cracks. I need to get a new one quicksmart so decide
to splash out on an expensive glass one with carbon, foam and bio ball
filters. I add supplement and I buy a decent plant to convert the nitrites.
I toss the Moor in there and decide to buy him 3 new friends, fantails this
time.

5. Everything's hunkdory for about 4 weeks, then one day one of the fantails
is covered in blood bruises, as if he's been crushed. This is unlikely as
the filter isn't too aggressive, but I start to notice that there are white
spots on the other two fantails and fungal stuff too.

6. The black moor's fins start to rot away, and he spends most of the time
hiding in the little barrel I've got, out of sight, along with the bruised
fantail.

7. The moor dies (3 days ago), and the fantail is alive but hiding
constantly in that barrel, still bruised. The other two fantails are now
floating at the top of the tank constantly, covered in spots and with their
fins rotting a bit at the end too. I've tried to get them to eat lettuce and
peas - as i thought it might be a swimbladder problem - but they aren't too
receptive at all.


Now, the two main questions a

1) What did I do wrong?

As far as I can see my problem with the original tank was not cleaning it
properly (I have a gravel pump now), not allowing the nitrogen cycle to
begin BEFORE introducing the fish, and of course overfeeding.

Now I was SURE I was on the right track with this aquarium, but evidently my
big schoolboy error was to introduce the fish immediately (4 at once)
without allowing the tank to mature properly. The water quality is perfect,
though - no nitrites and very small nitrate level, so I really can't see how
they got this disease and how it's been passed on. Maybe some of you can
help answer this.

2) With 3 fish basically floating about, still alive but clearly not well -
should I consider euthanasia? The finrot treatment isn't working at all by
the looks of things and I'd hate to think that they were suffering because
of my stupidity.

Anyway, that's my confession over - obviously I'm quite annoyed about this,
I had no idea keeping fish was such an involving task but it's equally
frustrating that I'm not doing it right, so I intend to make sure that I
learn from the mistakes here and make sure that the next three or four fish
are treated like royalty.

Help!

Roberto

excuse the crosspost eh lads?
Mate, you need to learn more about ammonia and nitrite.
Do not put any fish in until the ammonia and nitrite go up and then both
settle on 0ppm
relax
slow down
and for starters, only use one goldfish
now you need to learn about biofilters
do not clean your filter for a while
when you do clean it use water drawn from your aquarium into a bucket to
gently rinse it in
do not do huge clean outs
the secret at first is patience




"El Roberto" wrote in message
...
Dear all,

by the looks of things this group is inundated with first-timers like me
who jump in looking for the answer to a question then jump out, so
apologies to any of the regulars here for my bluntness. Anyway, I have two
pressing questions that I think people here might be able to help, but
first I'll fill you in on the history of my fishkeeping disasters.

1. My friend buys me 2 goldfish as a joke, I buy a cheap acrylic tank with
ultra basic filter to put them in and buy a Black Moor to go with them, so
they're in the tank straightaway.

2. I start learning all the basics of keeping fish healthy, start changing
the water weekly and adding bacteria to the tank.

3. Unfortunately I have been changing the water from the top of the tank
using a ladle, I've been overfeeding the fish, and genuinely had no idea.
I find the two goldfish floating upside down dead and when I test the
water the nitrate and nitrite levels are through the ROOF. This leaves me
with a Black Moor who at this stage probably has a liver like an
alcoholic's, so I decant him and clean out the tank.

4. I drop the tank - it cracks. I need to get a new one quicksmart so
decide to splash out on an expensive glass one with carbon, foam and bio
ball filters. I add supplement and I buy a decent plant to convert the
nitrites. I toss the Moor in there and decide to buy him 3 new friends,
fantails this time.

5. Everything's hunkdory for about 4 weeks, then one day one of the
fantails is covered in blood bruises, as if he's been crushed. This is
unlikely as the filter isn't too aggressive, but I start to notice that
there are white spots on the other two fantails and fungal stuff too.

6. The black moor's fins start to rot away, and he spends most of the time
hiding in the little barrel I've got, out of sight, along with the bruised
fantail.

7. The moor dies (3 days ago), and the fantail is alive but hiding
constantly in that barrel, still bruised. The other two fantails are now
floating at the top of the tank constantly, covered in spots and with
their fins rotting a bit at the end too. I've tried to get them to eat
lettuce and peas - as i thought it might be a swimbladder problem - but
they aren't too receptive at all.


Now, the two main questions a

1) What did I do wrong?

As far as I can see my problem with the original tank was not cleaning it
properly (I have a gravel pump now), not allowing the nitrogen cycle to
begin BEFORE introducing the fish, and of course overfeeding.

Now I was SURE I was on the right track with this aquarium, but evidently
my big schoolboy error was to introduce the fish immediately (4 at once)
without allowing the tank to mature properly. The water quality is
perfect, though - no nitrites and very small nitrate level, so I really
can't see how they got this disease and how it's been passed on. Maybe
some of you can help answer this.

2) With 3 fish basically floating about, still alive but clearly not
well - should I consider euthanasia? The finrot treatment isn't working at
all by the looks of things and I'd hate to think that they were suffering
because of my stupidity.

Anyway, that's my confession over - obviously I'm quite annoyed about
this, I had no idea keeping fish was such an involving task but it's
equally frustrating that I'm not doing it right, so I intend to make sure
that I learn from the mistakes here and make sure that the next three or
four fish are treated like royalty.

Help!

Roberto

http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/c...htm#essentials
you need to read up on what GF need. 10 gallons water per GF, 20 gallon minimum so
water temp doesnt swing to widely. they need twice as much filtration as for other
fish. they do best at warmer temps, like 75oF so a small heater, 50W is good too.
most people overfeed with really lousy food. if it comes in a container and sits on
the shelf, it isnt very good food. aquadine is good food, keep it in freezer, feed
teeny amounts.
join puregold list for more information.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
Ingrid

"El Roberto" wrote:

Dear all,

by the looks of things this group is inundated with first-timers like me who
jump in looking for the answer to a question then jump out, so apologies to
any of the regulars here for my bluntness. Anyway, I have two pressing
questions that I think people here might be able to help, but first I'll
fill you in on the history of my fishkeeping disasters.

1. My friend buys me 2 goldfish as a joke, I buy a cheap acrylic tank with
ultra basic filter to put them in and buy a Black Moor to go with them, so
they're in the tank straightaway.

2. I start learning all the basics of keeping fish healthy, start changing
the water weekly and adding bacteria to the tank.

3. Unfortunately I have been changing the water from the top of the tank
using a ladle, I've been overfeeding the fish, and genuinely had no idea. I
find the two goldfish floating upside down dead and when I test the water
the nitrate and nitrite levels are through the ROOF. This leaves me with a
Black Moor who at this stage probably has a liver like an alcoholic's, so I
decant him and clean out the tank.

4. I drop the tank - it cracks. I need to get a new one quicksmart so decide
to splash out on an expensive glass one with carbon, foam and bio ball
filters. I add supplement and I buy a decent plant to convert the nitrites.
I toss the Moor in there and decide to buy him 3 new friends, fantails this
time.

5. Everything's hunkdory for about 4 weeks, then one day one of the fantails
is covered in blood bruises, as if he's been crushed. This is unlikely as
the filter isn't too aggressive, but I start to notice that there are white
spots on the other two fantails and fungal stuff too.

6. The black moor's fins start to rot away, and he spends most of the time
hiding in the little barrel I've got, out of sight, along with the bruised
fantail.

7. The moor dies (3 days ago), and the fantail is alive but hiding
constantly in that barrel, still bruised. The other two fantails are now
floating at the top of the tank constantly, covered in spots and with their
fins rotting a bit at the end too. I've tried to get them to eat lettuce and
peas - as i thought it might be a swimbladder problem - but they aren't too
receptive at all.


Now, the two main questions a

1) What did I do wrong?

As far as I can see my problem with the original tank was not cleaning it
properly (I have a gravel pump now), not allowing the nitrogen cycle to
begin BEFORE introducing the fish, and of course overfeeding.

Now I was SURE I was on the right track with this aquarium, but evidently my
big schoolboy error was to introduce the fish immediately (4 at once)
without allowing the tank to mature properly. The water quality is perfect,
though - no nitrites and very small nitrate level, so I really can't see how
they got this disease and how it's been passed on. Maybe some of you can
help answer this.

2) With 3 fish basically floating about, still alive but clearly not well -
should I consider euthanasia? The finrot treatment isn't working at all by
the looks of things and I'd hate to think that they were suffering because
of my stupidity.

Anyway, that's my confession over - obviously I'm quite annoyed about this,
I had no idea keeping fish was such an involving task but it's equally
frustrating that I'm not doing it right, so I intend to make sure that I
learn from the mistakes here and make sure that the next three or four fish
are treated like royalty.

Help!

Roberto




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

El Roberto wrote:
Dear all,

by the looks of things this group is inundated with first-timers like me who
jump in looking for the answer to a question then jump out, so apologies to
any of the regulars here for my bluntness. Anyway, I have two pressing
questions that I think people here might be able to help, but first I'll
fill you in on the history of my fishkeeping disasters.

1. My friend buys me 2 goldfish as a joke, I buy a cheap acrylic tank with
ultra basic filter to put them in and buy a Black Moor to go with them, so
they're in the tank straightaway.

2. I start learning all the basics of keeping fish healthy, start changing
the water weekly and adding bacteria to the tank.

3. Unfortunately I have been changing the water from the top of the tank
using a ladle, I've been overfeeding the fish, and genuinely had no idea. I
find the two goldfish floating upside down dead and when I test the water
the nitrate and nitrite levels are through the ROOF. This leaves me with a
Black Moor who at this stage probably has a liver like an alcoholic's, so I
decant him and clean out the tank.

4. I drop the tank - it cracks. I need to get a new one quicksmart so decide
to splash out on an expensive glass one with carbon, foam and bio ball
filters. I add supplement and I buy a decent plant to convert the nitrites.
I toss the Moor in there and decide to buy him 3 new friends, fantails this
time.

5. Everything's hunkdory for about 4 weeks, then one day one of the fantails
is covered in blood bruises, as if he's been crushed. This is unlikely as
the filter isn't too aggressive, but I start to notice that there are white
spots on the other two fantails and fungal stuff too.

6. The black moor's fins start to rot away, and he spends most of the time
hiding in the little barrel I've got, out of sight, along with the bruised
fantail.

7. The moor dies (3 days ago), and the fantail is alive but hiding
constantly in that barrel, still bruised. The other two fantails are now
floating at the top of the tank constantly, covered in spots and with their
fins rotting a bit at the end too. I've tried to get them to eat lettuce and
peas - as i thought it might be a swimbladder problem - but they aren't too
receptive at all.


Now, the two main questions a

1) What did I do wrong?

As far as I can see my problem with the original tank was not cleaning it
properly (I have a gravel pump now), not allowing the nitrogen cycle to
begin BEFORE introducing the fish, and of course overfeeding.

Now I was SURE I was on the right track with this aquarium, but evidently my
big schoolboy error was to introduce the fish immediately (4 at once)
without allowing the tank to mature properly. The water quality is perfect,
though - no nitrites and very small nitrate level, so I really can't see how
they got this disease and how it's been passed on. Maybe some of you can
help answer this.

2) With 3 fish basically floating about, still alive but clearly not well -
should I consider euthanasia? The finrot treatment isn't working at all by
the looks of things and I'd hate to think that they were suffering because
of my stupidity.

Anyway, that's my confession over - obviously I'm quite annoyed about this,
I had no idea keeping fish was such an involving task but it's equally
frustrating that I'm not doing it right, so I intend to make sure that I
learn from the mistakes here and make sure that the next three or four fish
are treated like royalty.

Help!

Roberto

There is no way to know for certain what went wrong without all the
before and after parameters (ammonia, KH pH), and even then even the
best aquarists get stumped.
You did probably add fish too fast before your aquarium cycled fully.
Have you changed any water yet?
You also may have inadvertently added infected fish.

If your conditions were poor at any time, this could have allowed
oppertunistic diseases such columnaris or aeromonas to have taken hold.
It sounds to me from your symptoms that you have an aeromonas bacterial
infection.
What do the spots you mentioned look like? If they looked like salt you
also may have "ich" too. For the Bacterial infection I would reccoment
nirofurazone or Kanamycin (if your pH is high, above 7.5 I would use
Kanamycin)

As for euthanasia, that is a hard call to make, but maybe others here
will have more to say about this and more.

Here is more information about Aeromonas and aquarium medications:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts....Aeromonas.html
http://aquarium-medictions.blogspot.com/

Carl

"El Roberto" wrote in message
...
Dear all,

by the looks of things this group is inundated with first-timers like me
who jump in looking for the answer to a question then jump out, so
apologies to any of the regulars here for my bluntness. Anyway, I have two
pressing questions that I think people here might be able to help, but
first I'll fill you in on the history of my fishkeeping disasters.
------------brevity snip!

Please do some online research before you buy any more fish. Google
goldfish-care, nitrogen-cycle etc. There is enough information out there to
keep you reading for a few days. Few of us have the time to type you a small
booklet on the subject, covering everything you need to know. :-)
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Thank you all for your feedback and help, the FAQs I've been pointed towards
are very helpful.

Unfortunately as expected, all of the fish are dead bar one, who will be
joining the big bio-orb in the sky very soon by the looks of things.

Now, should I clean out the tank completely: the gravel, castle, and glass
before I start again? I don't want any new fish to catch the disease that
killed these guys, so I'm assuming I need to start the whole thing again and
let the tank mature for 3 weeks from scratch.

Ideas? The water quality is good, all the tests are fine, but I don't want
any nasty germs and bugs to still be attached to the gravel, plants and
glass...

thanks!

Robbie

El Roberto wrote:
Thank you all for your feedback and help, the FAQs I've been pointed towards
are very helpful.

Unfortunately as expected, all of the fish are dead bar one, who will be
joining the big bio-orb in the sky very soon by the looks of things.

Now, should I clean out the tank completely: the gravel, castle, and glass
before I start again? I don't want any new fish to catch the disease that
killed these guys, so I'm assuming I need to start the whole thing again and
let the tank mature for 3 weeks from scratch.

Ideas? The water quality is good, all the tests are fine, but I don't want
any nasty germs and bugs to still be attached to the gravel, plants and
glass...

thanks!

Robbie

If you clean your tank out completely, you will have to start all over
again. But you may also choose to let your tank go dormant and maybe
treat with a safe organic treatment such as Pimafix and wait a couple
weeks before adding more fish.
Either way follow the above advice of others and take it slow and read
as much as possible.
Here is one more site with links to even more information:
http://aquarium-info.blogspot.com/

But don't just read this, search the web or your local book store for
more information.

Carl

yes. try bleaching everything with a mild bleach solution, then rinse until you
cannot smell anything, then leave it outside in the sun. be sure to use dechlor in
the water and like you said, let it run. try fishless cycling
FISHLESS CYCLING OF TANKS
rather than getting the RIGHT kind of ammonia and getting the RIGHT amount in the
tank, a pinch of Hikari Gold fish food for a small tank up to a tablespoon in a 75
gallon can be tossed into the tank, the heat set to 82oF and plenty of aeration. In
3 days or so watch the ammonia. If no ammonia is seen add more food.
Ingrid

"El Roberto" wrote:

Thank you all for your feedback and help, the FAQs I've been pointed towards
are very helpful.

Unfortunately as expected, all of the fish are dead bar one, who will be
joining the big bio-orb in the sky very soon by the looks of things.

Now, should I clean out the tank completely: the gravel, castle, and glass
before I start again? I don't want any new fish to catch the disease that
killed these guys, so I'm assuming I need to start the whole thing again and
let the tank mature for 3 weeks from scratch.

Ideas? The water quality is good, all the tests are fine, but I don't want
any nasty germs and bugs to still be attached to the gravel, plants and
glass...

thanks!

Robbie




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

Just leave the tank running and every day feed the tank a bit of fish food
take your water to a fish shop every week or so and get them to test it for
ammonia and nitrite
when the ammonia and nitrite readings go up and then down to 0ppm your tank
is cycled
50% water change to lower nitrates and then get your first fish
disease is always present, it just only has a chance against fish when the
environment favours it.






"El Roberto" wrote in message
...
Thank you all for your feedback and help, the FAQs I've been pointed
towards are very helpful.

Unfortunately as expected, all of the fish are dead bar one, who will be
joining the big bio-orb in the sky very soon by the looks of things.

Now, should I clean out the tank completely: the gravel, castle, and glass
before I start again? I don't want any new fish to catch the disease that
killed these guys, so I'm assuming I need to start the whole thing again
and let the tank mature for 3 weeks from scratch.

Ideas? The water quality is good, all the tests are fine, but I don't want
any nasty germs and bugs to still be attached to the gravel, plants and
glass...

thanks!

Robbie

Just to say a huge thanks to everyone for all the advice, it's very
welcoming as I'm sure you guys have to answer these questions every single
week, so thanks for your patience.

So, my background looks like OMAHA BEACH at the moment, with six crucifixes
in it, but fingers crossed that'll be the last time... I gave everything a
good wash, let it dry out over night, and once I'd put the gravel in I
bought this massive new rock-face / cliff decoration that looks absolutely
amazing, full of places to hide and a lot better than what I had before.

I've put some nutrafin cycle in the water, dechlorinated it, and am going to
leave it for about a week before putting in - on the advice of the aquarium
owner - a really hardy species of goldfish, just to speed things up. Is this
quite a common thing to do? I also think I'll give up on fantails as I've
been told they are one of the harder species to keep (after killing four of
them, I see why)... suggestions? I like the idea of smaller fish, maybe
orandas and a zebra fish... anything that's not going to get swimbladder
disease or finrot as easily as the last few... whatever happens, I'm going
to make sure I add them at big intervals and make sure the water's kosher,
as I don't want a repeat of the killing fields that my last aquarium became.

I'll get the hang of this eventually - meanwhile, thanks for your help!

R