Bo0ger1, show me your tank...

Booger, I have noticed you ignored several requests
from several different people who wanted to see your
tank(s) run over a year without a water change...

Why don't you show people here your method works ?

Is there maybe something wrong with your tank and
you do not want to show it ? What are you ashamed of?

Check this out:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/totm/index.php
Tell me, is your tank looking like this one or better ?

Show me the picture of your tank - I want to nominate
your tank for a "Tank Of The Month" contest! ;-)

Or... I have a better idea - write an e-mail to the
owner of this tank, Menard Villaber, and tell him
he is wasting his time and money changing water... :-)

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
Booger, I have noticed you ignored several requests
from several different people who wanted to see your
tank(s) run over a year without a water change...

Why don't you show people here your method works ?

Is there maybe something wrong with your tank and
you do not want to show it ? What are you ashamed of?

Check this out:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/totm/index.php
Tell me, is your tank looking like this one or better ?

Show me the picture of your tank - I want to nominate
your tank for a "Tank Of The Month" contest! ;-)

Or... I have a better idea - write an e-mail to the
owner of this tank, Menard Villaber, and tell him
he is wasting his time and money changing water... :-)


I second that !
I would like to see the b00ger tank.
1 year, no water change....here is what I imagine it would look like...
http://www.southparkx.net/gallery/da...a/1/toilet.jpg

Come to think of it, I think we would all like to see it..

Well, I don't know who Booger is but here's some pictures of my tank
....

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/alanfromw...ank/index.html

Last water change was about a year ago, I add Kent's "essential
elements" once a week but I've no idea if it makes any difference.
Nitrates are almost zero, phosphates are zero: I grow Chaeto in the
sump export them. Can't really think of any good reason to waste money
and effort on water changes.

wrote in message ups.com...
Well, I don't know who Booger is but here's some pictures of my tank
...

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/alanfromw...ank/index.html

Last water change was about a year ago, I add Kent's "essential
elements" once a week but I've no idea if it makes any difference.
Nitrates are almost zero, phosphates are zero: I grow Chaeto in the
sump export them. Can't really think of any good reason to waste money
and effort on water changes.

Not bad...
Tell me, do you use any chemical filters like activated carbon
or phosphate removers ? Please tell me more about this tank.

I use Phosban. Until recently this was just in a filter bag hung in the
sump but I've just bought a reactor: I'm hoping I'll get more milage
out of the Phosban and the reactor will pay for itself in the long run.
It only needed changing every 3 months or so before but it's expenisve
stuff.

I've also just started running some carbon in a bag in the sump just to
see what happens. Can't honestly say I've noticed any difference yet.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Well, I don't know who Booger is but here's some pictures of my tank
...

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/alanfromw...ank/index.html

Last water change was about a year ago, I add Kent's "essential
elements" once a week but I've no idea if it makes any difference.

Ditto! I do the same thing, only I add Kent Marine essential elements 1once
a month or so. No water changes in 2-years! Just a little algae I need to
remedy.

These people here (for the most part) are brain washed into thinking you
need to water changes all the time.

Nitrates are almost zero, phosphates are zero: I grow Chaeto in the
sump export them. Can't really think of any good reason to waste money
and effort on water changes.

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in
m:



wrote in message
ups.com...
Well, I don't know who Booger is but here's some pictures of my tank
...

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/alanfromw...ank/index.html

Last water change was about a year ago, I add Kent's "essential
elements" once a week but I've no idea if it makes any difference.

Ditto! I do the same thing, only I add Kent Marine essential elements
1once a month or so. No water changes in 2-years! Just a little
algae I need to remedy.

These people here (for the most part) are brain washed into thinking
you need to water changes all the time.


Mmm. You (deliberately, at this point?) mis-characterize water changes,
and the people who make use of them. Derisive comments directed at their
proponents does not hold nearly as much weight as demonstrated proof of
their being unnecessary. Talk is cheap, (and insults are free), especially
on the Internet. In that respect, blackhole555 has contributed an order of
magnitude more content with one post, than you have in the last three weeks
at r.a.m.reefs. You go on about water changes being a grand conspiracy of
unneeded work for the laboring aquarium proletariat, but have yet to offer
a shred of evidence that it works for you, other than your dubious word.

Water changes are a health/preventative measure for a closed aquatic
system, with a conscious reason for their use, not some mindless habit.

Analogy; People can live to be sixty or older on an exclusive McDonald's
diet. Some people can even thrive on it, usually if they're picky about
what they choose off of the menu. But for most of us, a healthy diet and
regular exercise are a much surer road to longevity. Water changes are the
equivalent of a person having a light workout 3 times per week, i.e. a
simple, proven, reliable method for improving one's health.

Application of analogy; Sure, just about everyone here has _already_
recognized that you can maintain a simple FOWLR tank without water changes,
and fairly easily so (keep the fish mass down vs. tank size, amount of
liverock and number of supporting detrivores, pick species which don't
produce an abundance of secreted toxins, and avoid messy eaters).
There are also instances of reefkeepers who can strike a balanced system
without water changes (often with either a technologically elaborate setup,
a means of nutrient export, or both), but that doesn't detract from the
value of water changes for those for whom it works, either. There are
several ways to live a healthy lifestyle...


To blackhole555, that's a beautiful tank! How big is it, and the sump?
A sump/refugium type-setup for nutrient export seems to be a recurring
theme to those reef tanks I've seen which report little/no water changes.
Do you think you would you be as confident of not changing your water, if
you were lacking that aspect of your setup? ...Do I see a Vecton UV
sterilizer in that cabinet, too?

Regards,
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

The tank is 36x24x24, the sump is 24x12x15, about 350L of water in
total, I think.

There is indeed a UV unit in there, also a fairly recent addition, I
added it after reading "The reef aquarium" vol 3 by J.Sprung (Excellent
reference book, BTW). he says they have "many advantages and no
disadvantages" & I reakon he knows his stuff!

I think the desicion to stop water changes (I did originally do them)
came more from my growing understanding of the reef chemistry and the
nitrogen cycle rather than "I've got all the kit, I don't need water
changes" type of thinking.

Might be better to stand the question on it's head and ask those who do
water changes "what do you think they achieve". I don't need to remove
NO3 (It varies between 0 & 5ppm) or PO4 or anything else I can think of
right now. If adding trace elements is your reason, then you're
assuming that the salt mix you buy has the correct trace elements in it
(Some don't event get the Ca & alk. right).

BTW: It's not laziness either, I also have 4 FW tanks & they get 20%
changed every 2 weeks. Anyone got any live rock that works in FW?

Might be better to stand the question on it's head and ask those who do
water changes "what do you think they achieve". I don't need to remove
NO3 (It varies between 0 & 5ppm) or PO4 or anything else I can think of
right now. If adding trace elements is your reason, then you're
assuming that the salt mix you buy has the correct trace elements in it
(Some don't event get the Ca & alk. right).

I have been arguing with these nuckleheads for about 2-weeks regarding
unnecessary water changes. I have received 3-reasons that they do them.

1) In order to add trace elements/remove nitrate.
2) It's enjoyable
3) Because coral release toxic chemicals into the water ??

I think the real reason they do it is for a lack of understanding at the
chemical/biological level. It is easier for them to do a water change than
to grasp what is going on in their tank at a biological level.


BTW: It's not laziness either, I also have 4 FW tanks & they get 20%
changed every 2 weeks. Anyone got any live rock that works in FW?