High Nitrate Level for Koi

I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

(MC) wrote:
I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

Yeah, that's a problem. Start doing water changes to drive it down to something
more reasonable (BTW, filtration does very little for nitrates -- they're the
end product of the nitrogen cycle. You either have to have lots of green
growing stuff to suck up the nitrates, or do water changes to dilute them).

yup, big water changes and quit feeding them low quality food and as much food.
welcome to the world of aquariums. Ingrid

Andy Hill wrote:

(MC) wrote:
I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

Yeah, that's a problem. Start doing water changes to drive it down to something
more reasonable (BTW, filtration does very little for nitrates -- they're the
end product of the nitrogen cycle. You either have to have lots of green
growing stuff to suck up the nitrates, or do water changes to dilute them).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

What do you mean by "low quality food"? What types of food helps keep
the nitrates low?

wrote in message ...
yup, big water changes and quit feeding them low quality food and as much food.
welcome to the world of aquariums. Ingrid

Andy Hill wrote:

(MC) wrote:
I brought my Koi indoors for the winter and am experiencing high
nitrate levels although I believe I have sufficient filtration. I have
read this isn't a big problem in some places, but on the test strips
and elsewhere read it was unsafe. I have about 100-150PPM. Is this
something to worry about? Nitrites are almost non-existent and PH is
fine.

Yeah, that's a problem. Start doing water changes to drive it down to something
more reasonable (BTW, filtration does very little for nitrates -- they're the
end product of the nitrogen cycle. You either have to have lots of green
growing stuff to suck up the nitrates, or do water changes to dilute them).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"MC" wrote in message
...
What do you mean by "low quality food"? What types of food helps keep
the nitrates low?

I don't see the food quality as having anything to do with Nitrates though
excess feed can promote a rise in Phosphates in the Aquarium
world....Nitrates are just the end product from any mature bio filter -
Ammonia, Nitrites & then Nitrates.

There are a few other things you can do to help deal with Nitrates....

1) Buy something like a Nitragon or Nitraking Nitrate filter....usually used
for tap water to prepare Nitrate free water for aquariums. You can stick one
on a pump but it needs to be quite powerfull (in aquarium terms - nothing
like a pond pump!)

2) Buy some "Nitrazorb" - works on the same principle as above but goes in
the filter (or can just sit in the water - its in a porous sachet). You'd
probably need quite a lot of it (depending on how much water you are dealing
with) and its not cheap.

Both of these are Ion exchange filters i.e. they need to be recharged with
salt water (much like a domestic water softener) periodically. Something
like a Nitragon will give you roughly 75-100 gallons of Nitrate free tap
water before it needs a recharge though you can get bigger units.

Option 3 is to run up a bacterial nitrate filter. Do a google search for
"Nitrate filter" and you will find some discussion about how these work &
links to sites detailing how you can build them fairly cheaply. They take a
week or 3 to run them up - basically you create an Anaerobic filter by
passing water through it very slowly - this becomes oxygen free as it passes
through the filter. You get bacteria building up which then eat Nitrate to
get Oxygen thus releasing Nitrogen. They can be tricky. Run it too slowly &
you get sulphur dioxide, too fast & the filter breaks down because you need
an oxygen free environment. You also have to feed the filter periodically
with Alcohol of some description (I think!)

A fourth option is to buy a sulphur based Nitrate filter. I have one of
these on a 75G fish tank which is heavily stocked & it has zero Nitrates.
This works in much the same way as option 3 above but does not require
feeding - the sulphur removes the need for this apparently. One "side
effect" of this type of filter is that it seems to strip the Kh buffer out
of the water - and does so quite quickly. As a result I add Baking Soda
(Bicarbonate of SOda) to my tank every few days. Its a bit of a pain BUT a
lot less aggravation than dealing with Nitrates by constantly changing
water. This side effect may apply to option 3 above as well - no direct
experience of use so I can't say!

HTH

rgds

Iain

Iain,

The options you mentioned are affective but not for the faint at heart. The
require a lot of tinkering.

You are also right in saying the food has nothing to do with nitrates.
Ingrid is always trying to put the blame on any food that is not high
protein and costs an arm and a leg. She is not a nutritionist and refuses
to read the literature about the needs of Goldfish and KOI, but keeps up her
diatribe along these lines blaming inexpensive foods for everything

If people would do the research they would find that common Goldfish and KOI
can handle much higher nitrates, but, like people, the fish are all
different and some are more susceptible than others thus showing reactions
to lower concentrations. Some Ornamental varieties of Goldfish seem to be
more prone to be affected by lower nitrate concentrations, but that have
never been proven or written in a lab research.

In any event, a simpler way to take care of nitrates is to put stems of
Philodendrons in your water and let them got to town. My nitrates are
virtually zero at all times and I have beautiful philodendrons growing
everywhere. Once the roots adapt to the water environment they do great.
The only other alternative is to do water changes, frequently, or use the
nitra-sorbs you mentioned. Which, in my opinion, is a needless expense,
when philodendrons do the job, virtually for free.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------
"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

"MC" wrote in message
...
What do you mean by "low quality food"? What types of food helps keep
the nitrates low?

I don't see the food quality as having anything to do with Nitrates though
excess feed can promote a rise in Phosphates in the Aquarium
world....Nitrates are just the end product from any mature bio filter -
Ammonia, Nitrites & then Nitrates.

There are a few other things you can do to help deal with Nitrates....

1) Buy something like a Nitragon or Nitraking Nitrate filter....usually
used
for tap water to prepare Nitrate free water for aquariums. You can stick
one
on a pump but it needs to be quite powerfull (in aquarium terms - nothing
like a pond pump!)

2) Buy some "Nitrazorb" - works on the same principle as above but goes in
the filter (or can just sit in the water - its in a porous sachet). You'd
probably need quite a lot of it (depending on how much water you are
dealing
with) and its not cheap.

Both of these are Ion exchange filters i.e. they need to be recharged with
salt water (much like a domestic water softener) periodically. Something
like a Nitragon will give you roughly 75-100 gallons of Nitrate free tap
water before it needs a recharge though you can get bigger units.

Option 3 is to run up a bacterial nitrate filter. Do a google search for
"Nitrate filter" and you will find some discussion about how these work &
links to sites detailing how you can build them fairly cheaply. They take
a
week or 3 to run them up - basically you create an Anaerobic filter by
passing water through it very slowly - this becomes oxygen free as it
passes
through the filter. You get bacteria building up which then eat Nitrate to
get Oxygen thus releasing Nitrogen. They can be tricky. Run it too slowly
&
you get sulphur dioxide, too fast & the filter breaks down because you
need
an oxygen free environment. You also have to feed the filter periodically
with Alcohol of some description (I think!)

A fourth option is to buy a sulphur based Nitrate filter. I have one of
these on a 75G fish tank which is heavily stocked & it has zero Nitrates.
This works in much the same way as option 3 above but does not require
feeding - the sulphur removes the need for this apparently. One "side
effect" of this type of filter is that it seems to strip the Kh buffer out
of the water - and does so quite quickly. As a result I add Baking Soda
(Bicarbonate of SOda) to my tank every few days. Its a bit of a pain BUT a
lot less aggravation than dealing with Nitrates by constantly changing
water. This side effect may apply to option 3 above as well - no direct
experience of use so I can't say!

HTH

rgds

Iain

Tom La Bron wrote:

You are also right in saying the food has nothing to do with nitrates.

I'm confused. Doesn't "high quality" usually mean "high protein"?
Isn't protein high in nitrogen? I know that the manure collectors in
olden China would get better prices for human **** collected from the
rich part of town because it made better fertilizer. Seems to me that
feeding better food would actually increase the pollution problem,
even if the quantity was reduced, due to the fish having such a short
intestine (low food conversion efficiency).

Of course, a "lower" quality food would have a higher roughage content
and produce a different problem to be cleaned up. OTOH, bacteria
attacking the undigested roughage should bind nitrogen, and reduce the
nitrate problem, wouldn't it?

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:01:51 -0900, Offbreed wrote:

I'm confused. Doesn't "high quality" usually mean "high protein"?

I don't think so. High quality feed is representative of the right feed for
the right animal for the right conditions.

Isn't protein high in nitrogen? I know that the manure collectors in
olden China would get better prices for human **** collected from the
rich part of town because it made better fertilizer.

In the olden days this was probably true. Now days with all the fast food
junk, even in China, I would wonder.

Of course, a "lower" quality food would have a higher roughage content
and produce a different problem to be cleaned up. OTOH, bacteria
attacking the undigested roughage should bind nitrogen, and reduce the
nitrate problem, wouldn't it?

No, because bacteria break down the waste to ammonia, nitrite and finally
to nitrate, regardless of type. (At least that's my understanding.) Ideally
we try to supplement our fishes diet with high yield low waste feeds, they
should get roughage off of algae and bug exoskeletons. ;o)

Now if you want to talk fish food, let's talk about what they're feeding
the salmon that WE eat!!!! Between that & Mad Cow animal food producers
need some obviously looks over their shoulders. Sheesh!!!! ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:01:51 -0900, Offbreed wrote:

I'm confused. Doesn't "high quality" usually mean "high protein"?

I don't think so. High quality feed is representative of the right feed for
the right animal for the right conditions.

I'd thought so to start with, but it sounded too sensible.

No, because bacteria break down the waste to ammonia, nitrite and finally
to nitrate, regardless of type. (At least that's my understanding.) Ideally
we try to supplement our fishes diet with high yield low waste feeds, they
should get roughage off of algae and bug exoskeletons. ;o)

Ah. I was thinking of how adding uncomposted veg matter to a garden
would temporarily bind the free nitrogen in the soil. But,
"temporary", now you mention "finally".

Now if you want to talk fish food, let's talk about what they're feeding
the salmon that WE eat!!!!

Too expensive for my wallet G. I'd rather spring for a boat and go
catch my own salmon. (It only costs 10X as much that way, LOL)

"Tri-cities"? By the time the salmon get that far, bleh. "Pate in
skin". I understand you have some excellent bass fishing in the area,
though.

"Tri-cities"? By the time the salmon get that far, bleh. "Pate in
skin". I understand you have some excellent bass fishing in the area,
though.

Naaa, the Columbia River is within sight of my house. I could have real
Native American caught salmon out of the back of their pickup trucks, if I
wanted to pay $2/lb for the whole dang fish with 5+ lb. head.

Instead I have been paying $3.49 for a boneless fillet, farm raised. Guess
it is Atlantic Salmon till they get this latest "kill the humans slowly"
situation under control. Doesn't compare to Copper River salmon out of
Alaska, but it will do. ) ~ jan
~ jan