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#11
June 16th 04, 01:54 AM
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Covering Pond for Winter
Zone 7 a/b Richmond Virginia. The cover has had about 1 foot of snow
covering it, or ice covering it, but inside, it is like a sauna. The fish are fed twice a day during the winter and four times a day during the summer. It is nice to go out and close the door behind you and spend time with the fish. I have canna bloom all year, taro growing so big that I have to divide it twice a year, and except for this winter, have been able to keep hyacinths and lettuce all winter. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... 70 degrees in the winter? You must be in a fairly warm climate. That seems a little warm. "RichToyBox" wrote in message news:IQrzc.36242$eu.27831@attbi_s02... I use the Quick Plug QP20T from Aquatic Eco. I have two of them in my 4000 gallon pond and one in my 2500 gallon pond and am able to keep my ponds near 70 degrees. They really don't start doing any heating to speak of until January and by the first of March, the sun is high enough to provide pretty good solar heat. If the only purpose is to keep the pond from freezing over, I don't know if you would need a heater at all, as long as it is covered with a lean-to or igloo structure to keep the cold, chilling wind away from the water, and allow the natural heat of the soil to be captured without evaporative losses. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. wrote in message ... I am in Milwaukee, zone 5 and I cover my pond with plain dispo plastic altho I too make a lean too above the pond. http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/winters/winter.htm this last year I put in a 500 watt heater for 1600 gallons and it kept the water 50o or better for all but one month. meaning I could feed the fish lightly and their immune system was down only about a month. I have a big 12" airstone blowing air into the pond all winter. the air pump is in my garage. Ingrid "RichToyBox" wrote: My pond is covered and heated during the winter. The cover is a lean-to with 3 layers of poly sheeting and one layer of the pool solar cover. I do not leave a venting area around the perimeter, but do enter the enclosure 2 times a day for feeding the fish. I do not think it would be necessary to provide any ventilation if the cover is mounted above the pond. If it is layed on the surface of the water, then I would leave at least an inch all the way around and install airstones. The water will not be able to have gas exchange under the cover, and will get fouled. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. 
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#12
June 16th 04, 09:41 PM
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Covering Pond for Winter
Drat!! I wish I hadn't read about your tropical wintertime pond, Rich
 ~~ sweltering here in the June heat but still remember how awfully cold my pond is in January... sigh Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "RichToyBox" wrote in message news:gTMzc.28225$Hg2.9035@attbi_s04... Zone 7 a/b Richmond Virginia. The cover has had about 1 foot of snow covering it, or ice covering it, but inside, it is like a sauna. The fish are fed twice a day during the winter and four times a day during the summer. It is nice to go out and close the door behind you and spend time with the fish. I have canna bloom all year, taro growing so big that I have to divide it twice a year, and except for this winter, have been able to keep hyacinths and lettuce all winter. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... 70 degrees in the winter? You must be in a fairly warm climate. That seems a little warm. "RichToyBox" wrote in message news:IQrzc.36242$eu.27831@attbi_s02... I use the Quick Plug QP20T from Aquatic Eco. I have two of them in my 4000 gallon pond and one in my 2500 gallon pond and am able to keep my ponds near 70 degrees. They really don't start doing any heating to speak of until January and by the first of March, the sun is high enough to provide pretty good solar heat. If the only purpose is to keep the pond from freezing over, I don't know if you would need a heater at all, as long as it is covered with a lean-to or igloo structure to keep the cold, chilling wind away from the water, and allow the natural heat of the soil to be captured without evaporative losses. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. wrote in message ... I am in Milwaukee, zone 5 and I cover my pond with plain dispo plastic altho I too make a lean too above the pond. http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/winters/winter.htm this last year I put in a 500 watt heater for 1600 gallons and it kept the water 50o or better for all but one month. meaning I could feed the fish lightly and their immune system was down only about a month. I have a big 12" airstone blowing air into the pond all winter. the air pump is in my garage. Ingrid "RichToyBox" wrote: My pond is covered and heated during the winter. The cover is a lean-to with 3 layers of poly sheeting and one layer of the pool solar cover. I do not leave a venting area around the perimeter, but do enter the enclosure 2 times a day for feeding the fish. I do not think it would be necessary to provide any ventilation if the cover is mounted above the pond. If it is layed on the surface of the water, then I would leave at least an inch all the way around and install airstones. The water will not be able to have gas exchange under the cover, and will get fouled. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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#13
June 17th 04, 02:30 AM
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Covering Pond for Winter
I'm responding to the Subject header (my lovely server only keeps messages
for one day or so)... I was just talking with a woman whose neighbor put in a very expensive pond with very expensive Koi and then over the winter covered the pond. When he opened it up that spring all of the Koi were belly up of course (did a great job of trapping in all of the bad gases and not letting in any oxygen). Just wanted to remind any newbies that fish need oxygen no matter what the season. I have never known of anyone to put a cover on a pond period but if you do I assume there must be some type of venting and oxygenating system for it. For keeping a hole in the ice I used to use a water heater that you use for outdoor dogs or horses water buckets. I now use an air stone which I like better since I like the down time of winter when everything is dormant. wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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#15
June 18th 04, 01:33 AM
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Covering Pond for Winter
You may be surprised at the temperature of the pond from 500 watt heater.
First if the pond is protected from evaporation and allowed some solar heat, it will supply heat to the soil, until it drops to about 55 degrees, and then it starts being heated by the natural ground temperature, which is a fairly constant 55 degrees. So the heater should be raising the temperature from the 55 degree level, and all of your heat losses should be through the cover. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... The price range seems to run the gambit- 500W from $40 to $500+. As I understand it, roughly each Watt will raise 1 gallon of water 10 degrees. So if my cover keeps my 500 gallon pond at a minimum of 40 degrees, a 500W heater will raise it to 50 degrees. wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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#16
June 18th 04, 09:05 PM
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Covering Pond for Winter
I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground
freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. "RichToyBox" wrote in message news:vLqAc.47756$Hg2.30050@attbi_s04... You may be surprised at the temperature of the pond from 500 watt heater. First if the pond is protected from evaporation and allowed some solar heat, it will supply heat to the soil, until it drops to about 55 degrees, and then it starts being heated by the natural ground temperature, which is a fairly constant 55 degrees. So the heater should be raising the temperature from the 55 degree level, and all of your heat losses should be through the cover. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... The price range seems to run the gambit- 500W from $40 to $500+. As I understand it, roughly each Watt will raise 1 gallon of water 10 degrees. So if my cover keeps my 500 gallon pond at a minimum of 40 degrees, a 500W heater will raise it to 50 degrees. wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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#17
June 19th 04, 01:18 AM
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Covering Pond for Winter
The frost line is outside where the soil is exposed. Crawl spaces under
houses don't freeze. I suspect that if the pond is kept covered, the soil under the pond would not cool significantly below the 55 degrees. The soil around the sides would develop frost, but the pond would be heating the soil. If the cover extends a couple of feet from the pond edge, then the heat transfer would be slow. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. "RichToyBox" wrote in message news:vLqAc.47756$Hg2.30050@attbi_s04... You may be surprised at the temperature of the pond from 500 watt heater. First if the pond is protected from evaporation and allowed some solar heat, it will supply heat to the soil, until it drops to about 55 degrees, and then it starts being heated by the natural ground temperature, which is a fairly constant 55 degrees. So the heater should be raising the temperature from the 55 degree level, and all of your heat losses should be through the cover. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... The price range seems to run the gambit- 500W from $40 to $500+. As I understand it, roughly each Watt will raise 1 gallon of water 10 degrees. So if my cover keeps my 500 gallon pond at a minimum of 40 degrees, a 500W heater will raise it to 50 degrees. wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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#18
June 20th 04, 04:11 PM
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Covering Pond for Winter
I am in zone 5, Milwaukee north of you and to keep the pond clear of ice all winter
is cover it with a plastic lean to and run an airstone and/or a pump. The freezing does not actually get that deep. That is how deep it has been recorded, probably during the "little ice age" and no snow cover or out in the middle of a farmers field. this is the depth used for burying people so their coffins dont get heaved out of the ground by frost. all summer long my pond heats the surrounding soil. the 1.5 feet sticks up out of the ground is insulated. in any case, 500 watts did 1600 gallons kept water at or above 50o all but one month this last winter. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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#19
June 21st 04, 10:58 PM
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Covering Pond for Winter
What are the pros and cons of lean to versus a solar type surface cover?
wrote in message ... I am in zone 5, Milwaukee north of you and to keep the pond clear of ice all winter is cover it with a plastic lean to and run an airstone and/or a pump. The freezing does not actually get that deep. That is how deep it has been recorded, probably during the "little ice age" and no snow cover or out in the middle of a farmers field. this is the depth used for burying people so their coffins dont get heaved out of the ground by frost. all summer long my pond heats the surrounding soil. the 1.5 feet sticks up out of the ground is insulated. in any case, 500 watts did 1600 gallons kept water at or above 50o all but one month this last winter. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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#20
June 22nd 04, 02:25 AM
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Covering Pond for Winter
A solar cover laid on the surface of the water interfers with the gas
exchange, toxics out, oxygen in. With the lean-to or a domed structure, gas exchange is the same as without a cover. The solar cover has a relative R value for heat to cross from the water to the cold outside air. The lean-to structure has a lot of dead air, which is a pretty good insulator, between the water and the outside. My lean-to is covered with 2 layers of poly sheeting and 1 layer of the solar cover, so my R value from warm air over pond to cold outside air is higher than just solar cover. Plants do not have to be removed from the pond if covered with lean-to structure, and I keep tropical plants over the winter with blooms on tropical lilies until late January, cannas bloom all winter, taro blooms during the winter. Since a solar cover is designed for direct water contact, all of these plants would have to go. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... What are the pros and cons of lean to versus a solar type surface cover? wrote in message ... I am in zone 5, Milwaukee north of you and to keep the pond clear of ice all winter is cover it with a plastic lean to and run an airstone and/or a pump. The freezing does not actually get that deep. That is how deep it has been recorded, probably during the "little ice age" and no snow cover or out in the middle of a farmers field. this is the depth used for burying people so their coffins dont get heaved out of the ground by frost. all summer long my pond heats the surrounding soil. the 1.5 feet sticks up out of the ground is insulated. in any case, 500 watts did 1600 gallons kept water at or above 50o all but one month this last winter. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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