Bo0ger1, show me your tank...

First, you're the one who asserted that everyone else is doing things
"wrong" with their water changes.

OK, now you want to put words in my mouth. I NEVER said doing water changes
was wrong. Read this slowly: Water changes are NOT necessary. How many
times do I need to write this?

Second, you're the one who claims to
have some degree of scientific knowledge, and insight into the lack of
scientific knowledge of others. Science is founded on evidence, as I'm
sure you know. If you want to claim a superior scientific position, then
it should be no suprise when someone asks you to show your evidence.

You are really good at writing what I have never claimed!

I have no evidence to give other than my personal accounts (which have been
claimed by others as well). Take it or leave it! I don't care either way.
It's your money and your time invested.

You can take it or leave
it. This is a newsgroup, not a court room.


It doesn't need to be a "court room". I'm not looking for "beyond
reasonable doubt", or a "preponderance of the evidence". I'm merely
looking for anything you can offer to back up your claim of scientific
knowledge, other than your anonymous word (which, in itself, holds no
scientific value) and snarky comments against a proven method and its
proponents.

I say again, what evidence could I possible offer ??

I'll admit freely, your attitude towards the regulars on
this forum, (people whom I've had disagreements with myself, but whose
advice on reefkeeping has generally been sound), and your denigrating
attitude towards a commonly useed, evidenced practice, does put an extra
burden of expectation on you to prove your claims. *shrug* That's your
own fault, but its easy enough to correct.

Geesh! What makes you think I have the burden to prove anything? Read this
slowly :You can take what I have offered (and others) or leave it.

What makes you think not doing water changes is "not sound" when several
have made the same claim with great success?

and 2) specify further the conditions
under which he obtained his claimed success.

Here are my conditions: No water changes. I use a skimmer and
supplement with Kent Marine Essential Elements.

You've said that already, but that is hardly sufficient information to
characterize a tank, don't you agree?

No, I don't agree.


It seems to me like you're suggesting that, since booger's
experiences
correlate with your own, that should somehow validate his unevidenced
assertions scientifically for the rest of us.

No, what he is stating is that I am not alone. People do exist, other
than those that have responded in this thread, that do not do water
changes and still maintain a successful aquarium.


I've already recognized their presence (and success) as a minority. But
without more specific knowledge about their setups, the mere fact that
they
don't change water doesn't mean that I or anyone else will be able to
reproduce their results, does it?

It's not rocket science dude. Instead of doing water
changes...ummm....don't do water changes.


What I'd really like is for No Water
Change (NWC) tank proponents to get down to specifics, so we can all try
to
see what trends lead to success in those NWC tanks. Blackhole has been
very accomodating in that respect. You've chosen instead to support your
position by attacking the opposing (majority) view, the only thing that
ever does is damage your credibility when you _do_ have something relevant
to say...

Your opinion.

Really? In order to make this statement you have to make an
assumption. Your assumption is that we (those that have addressed this
thread in opposition) are alone.

No. My only assumption is that the sum total of *your* experience would
amount to one data point in support of not changing water (in FOWLR
tanks),

Sure. That's all 'I' can offer is one data point because 'I' only have one
aquarium. Sorry, I'm not setting up another tank just to convince you.

were you to substantiate it somehow (setup, water parameters, pictures).

Have you polled everyone that
maintains a marine aquarium? You are also making the assumption that
the practice of regular water changes is the only accepted practice
for maintaining a healthy aquarium.


Not at all, and since I started posting to this thread with a specific
acknoweldgement that you _can_ maintain FOWLR and, under specific
conditions, sometimes reef tanks without water changes, there is evidence
that your characterization of my position is false;

You never misrepresented my position? (see above)


Look atomweaver. You are correct, my experiences only represent one data
point and are purely anecdotal. I am not forcing my views on anyone, I am
merely stating that from my experience, water changes are not necessary. My
success with non-water changing has also been mirrored by others (more
anecdotal evidence). 'I' maintain a very healthy FOWLR aquarium sans water
changes. I was merely offering my experiences to the 'herd' as an
alternative to water changes. Maybe, just maybe a few people 'woke up' and
are now questioning their own aquarium maintaince practices. I offer no
guarantees for success. 'take it or leave it'