EcoSpheres Inhumane?

Stacey,

I'm going to answer your question in such a way that it can be applied
to all such similar circumstances... What you 'feel' after that is up
to you...

From a moral viewpoint, the amount of 'sympathy' applied to any
non-human is directly related to the amount of similarity to us
humans. We all (I hope) have a strong sympathy towards newborn
babies, since they are so much like us. We do not have as strong a
sympathy toward fetus's (sp???), dogs, cats, snakes, dolphins, tuna,
pigs, cows, etc, because they are all less "human."

Their lack of "human-ness" allows us to kill, experiment, and eat some
of them. With each of them we have varying levels of sympathy. for
most of us a fetus is closest to human and a snake farthest, so hardly
anyone minds killing and eating snakes, and almost all of us mind
killing and eating a fetus. (Please don't get angry, this is just an
ethical exersize...)

How about rats? Aren't they more human-like than brine shrimp? Yet
we trap, poison, and kill rats.

The U.S. supreme had to rule many years ago about what to do with
people who were no longer "human," like Terry Shiavo. Out of nine
justices, here is how they ruled:

5 justices decided that the States had an interest in keeping
people alive who were no longer human (defined briefly as actively
living and appreciating life), but if a person who had once been
human, had made it known with "clear and convincing evidence" that
they would not want to be kept alive if no longer human, then the
state could allow them to die. The reason for this ruling was that it
was impossible to foresee what the future would hold as far as medical
treatment and miracles of recovery were involved, and that since death
was permanent, with no going back, the States could act in the
non-human's best interest to preserve their life.

3 justices decided that the State was way out of line in
setting such a high standard of proof. They said that only a
preponderance of the evidence should be necessary, because the State
had no right to overrule a person's wishes, even after they were no
longer a person. This would mean that if a person had ever had a
serious conversation and mentioned that they would not want to be kept
alive, that preference should override the State's interest in keeping
them alive.

The last justice said that both the majority decision, and the
group dissent did a great disservice to the concept of life. He
pointed out that a person no longer human, had nothing left to live
for, and if the parents/family wanted to end the life, they should be
allowed to. Setting up burdon of proof arguments about what a person
said while they were human made no difference since a non-human had
nothing to live for.

So I guess you have to make your own decision about morality and
human-ness and life. Do the brine shrimp qualify as human? If so,
then they should be treated morally and released into the environment
so there life can be as brief or as lengthy as chance permits.

If the brine shrimp are not human, then we must decide if they are
close to human, and deserve fair consideration and protection from
inhumane treatment such as we offer cats, dogs, a third trimester
fetus, etc... Once you have made that decision, then you must decide
if the containment is inhumane. Would their life be better if we
released them to live, be eaten, and die in the wild?

If the brine shrimp are not close to human, then they do not benefit
from treatment based on our morals. At that point we only need to
consider the effect of their treatment on ourselves. Does confining
them to an 'eco-sphere' have an effect on our moral growth. Will
owning an eco-sphere lead to other morally questionable activities and
acts, such as you often see with children who torture animals and then
grow up to be sociopaths?

As usual, I have tried to be brief, but failed

rolf

p.s. My personal opinion is that brine shrimp are not human, and can
be used in almost any manner. They may be used as entertainment and
enjoyment (such as fish and other animals), therefore confined to a
controlled environment. They may be used as educational teaching
implements and experimental subjects, even up to purposely or
accidentally killing them. I'd much rather spend my energy on real
humans that need our concern, rather than brine shrimp that sound like
a tasty chilled snack ;-)

On 1 Mar 2005 12:19:38 -0800, "Stacey Whaley"
wrote:

I was wanting to get some opinions on the EcoSphere, initiated by NASA,
in which tiny creatures live confined in a glass ball with a little bit
of water, oxygen and a dead plant with which to feed on. (They are
definitely eye-catching.)

http://www.eco-sphere.com/home.htm

I don't know how many here remember the AquaBabies market, but many
protested their existence, stating it was inhumane to confine the
little fish to such a tiny living space.

To me, the EcoSphere seems no different. Brine shrimp though they may
be, surely they would like more space?

Some might say it's akin to keeping a dog locked-up in a cage, while
others might think it's a "cool" novelty.

What is your opinion?


-Stacey

In article ,
Eromsnid Flor wrote:
Stacey,

I'm going to answer your question in such a way that it can be applied
to all such similar circumstances... What you 'feel' after that is up
to you...

From a moral viewpoint, the amount of 'sympathy' applied to any
non-human is directly related to the amount of similarity to us
humans. We all (I hope) have a strong sympathy towards newborn
babies, since they are so much like us. We do not have as strong a
sympathy toward fetus's (sp???), dogs, cats, snakes, dolphins, tuna,
pigs, cows, etc, because they are all less "human."

This is changing:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...502933,00.html


And they're not brine shrimp which don't live that long, they're a small
marine shrimp that lives about 3-5 years.

--
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"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...502933,00.html




Anthropomorphisization. (sp?) The application of human
characteristics to things which are not human. That is not to say
that pigs and chickens do not feel, but to attempt to equate the
workings of their minds to ours is, while natural and inevitable in
our species, pointless and egotistical.

In article ,
Billy wrote:


"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...502933,00.html




Anthropomorphisization. (sp?) The application of human
characteristics to things which are not human. That is not to say
that pigs and chickens do not feel, but to attempt to equate the
workings of their minds to ours is, while natural and inevitable in
our species, pointless and egotistical.

I hope the cows think better of us than we do of them. While
anthropomorphism is an interesting theory, it may or may
nor be fact.

That is, it maybe right or it may be wrong i this case;
the work done in the referenced URL gives support to the
notion it does not apply in this instance.

--
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Eromsnid Flor wrote:

If the brine shrimp are not close to human, then they do not benefit
from treatment based on our morals. At that point we only need to
consider the effect of their treatment on ourselves. Does confining
them to an 'eco-sphere' have an effect on our moral growth. Will
owning an eco-sphere lead to other morally questionable activities and
acts, such as you often see with children who torture animals and then
grow up to be sociopaths?


Now THAT is the heart of the matter - well stated! I would add that
owning an Eco-Sphere could bring positive moral growth. If the shrimp
become pets and the keeper develops a sense of caring for something
alive, that caring can extend to higher animals and even fellow humans.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Elaine T wrote:
Eromsnid Flor wrote:

If the brine shrimp are not close to human, then they do not benefit
from treatment based on our morals. At that point we only need to
consider the effect of their treatment on ourselves. Does confining
them to an 'eco-sphere' have an effect on our moral growth. Will
owning an eco-sphere lead to other morally questionable activities and
acts, such as you often see with children who torture animals and then
grow up to be sociopaths?


Now THAT is the heart of the matter - well stated! I would add that
owning an Eco-Sphere could bring positive moral growth. If the shrimp
become pets and the keeper develops a sense of caring for something
alive, that caring can extend to higher animals and even fellow humans.


Just go and buy a few shrimp, stick 'em in a jar and have done with it.
Eco-Jar. Cheaper. Doh!

Nikki

"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...




Just go and buy a few shrimp, stick 'em in a jar and have done with it.
Eco-Jar. Cheaper. Doh!

Nikki



Not quite. If you stick them in jar you still have to feed them. The idea
of the eco sphere is that it is a completely balanced ecosystem in there.
No outside intervention such as feeding is needed.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

Margolis wrote:
"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...




Just go and buy a few shrimp, stick 'em in a jar and have done with it.
Eco-Jar. Cheaper. Doh!

Nikki




Not quite. If you stick them in jar you still have to feed them. The idea
of the eco sphere is that it is a completely balanced ecosystem in there.
No outside intervention such as feeding is needed.


I thought I'd mention it as I remember a childrens' science programme -
I think BBC's Science Shack - where they housed a few woodlice in a jar
with soil, air and a few plants. The jar was sealed and never opened.
The only thing the ecosystem needed to sustain it was light and heat.

Nikki

"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...


Margolis wrote:
"Nikki Casali" wrote in message
...




Just go and buy a few shrimp, stick 'em in a jar and have done with
it. Eco-Jar. Cheaper. Doh!

Nikki




Not quite. If you stick them in jar you still have to feed them. The
idea of the eco sphere is that it is a completely balanced ecosystem
in there. No outside intervention such as feeding is needed.


I thought I'd mention it as I remember a childrens' science programme -
I think BBC's Science Shack - where they housed a few woodlice in a jar
with soil, air and a few plants. The jar was sealed and never opened.
The only thing the ecosystem needed to sustain it was light and heat.

Nikki

Once a year, I used to get a parade of parents (moms) with kids trailing
behind them, ready to buy some fish and plants to put into a sealed jar
for their class science experiment. It was an annual event for us,
talking them out of putting several Guppies into a 1 litre jar. I
usually send them off with a variety of plant cuttings, a newborn fry or
shrimp (which they can return to me after the experiment is over), and
instructions to use a larger container, keep it away from heat sources,
etc etc. For the most part, the parents where quite sympathetic and
willing to follow the instructions, so I'd like to think that the
greatest influence on our moral compass is knowledge ).
--
www.NetMax.tk

Once a year, I used to get a parade of parents (moms) with kids trailing
behind them, ready to buy some fish and plants to put into a sealed jar
for their class science experiment. It was an annual event for us,
talking them out of putting several Guppies into a 1 litre jar. I
usually send them off with a variety of plant cuttings, a newborn fry or
shrimp (which they can return to me after the experiment is over), and
instructions to use a larger container, keep it away from heat sources,
etc etc. For the most part, the parents where quite sympathetic and
willing to follow the instructions, so I'd like to think that the
greatest influence on our moral compass is knowledge ).

Sure, it's really not hard to do. I once had a tank with a colony
of Aphyosemion bitaeniatum in a 20 gallon tank - I started
with 6 pair and a lot of thread algae. The tank was extremely
tightly covered (they jump!) and evaporation was near or at
zero. For about 18 months I did not feed them. Fish came and went,
occasionally you'r see a dead body (not for long) and occasionally
you'd see fry. There were always about 6 pair, more or less.

The liight (strong) kept the algae going, infusoria and copepods
lived off the algae and the fish ate them. Fish waste kept the
alage growing.

I was away for two weeks, the light had failed and when I got back
everyting in the tank was dead.
--
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