Now I'm really worried!

Richard Sexton wrote;
"Nonsense. It may be a quick or slow death or the fish may not die at
all".
Oz said his tank was overheating - heat is one of the things that
speeds up Flex. disease, along with hard water (high TDS), and alkaline
water. But, like I said in an earlyer reply, I don't think its Flex.
disease......... Frank

PP does not stain anything. What brown stain you see is oxidized
material and it comes off. Malachite Green will stain silicone and
plastics. so IMHO its best to use MG or other coper based type
treatments in a bare tank or a tank you do not mind having a bueish or
green colored sealer or air lines on. This is just about impossible to
remove, but does diminish with time.lots of time......

The brown stain from PP which normally is only going to be at the
water level or on anything that was oxidized, comes right off with a
rinse under water or just normal filtration and is not a
problem........The majority of aquariums are not really all that laden
with organic etc that get oxidized, as compared to natural ponds.



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

"Ozdude" wrote in message
u...
Oh dear,

Following on from the Sad Day thread:
snipped

Would you advise breaking the entire tank down, steralising everything
(especially filters and gravel), dosing the plants in Potassium
Permanganate/Bleach/H2O2 or something?

In regards to medicated foods, it's not difficult to prepare your own if
you have the mediations. I make a slurry of water and meds, and then
drop in a broken-up block of freeze-dried tubifex worms. After the
slurry is absorbed, drop it into the tank in a way that everyone gets
some. There are many recipes for home-made medicated food. hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

Many thanks in advance,

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

~Roy~ wrote:
PP does not stain anything. What brown stain you see is oxidized
material and it comes off.

In a white bathtub in a children's hospital ward it required a LOT of
Ajax and elbow grease to remove, especially as the baths got older and
lost some of their shiny surface (due to our scrubbing)

Elaine T wrote;
"food soaked in dissolved oxytetracycline"

Home made antibiotic food - can't beat it. If you disolve the
antibiotic in shrimp or fish oil, then soak the food in it, it will
stay on the food instead of being diluted by the water and, fish will
eat it a lot better than without the oil........Frank

I can't really comment on your case but a few months ago after doing a
large water change, and then a big feed that i had major health problems
in my tank, fortunately in my case it only affected my tiger barbs.
Symptoms were gasping for oxygen at the surface before losing balance...
I remedied by doing another water change, at 11.30pm mind you, closely
watcheed water quality testing ph and ammonia for next hour and adde an
additional airstone.
Next morning all sick looking fish were recovered with only the one
death.......i have no idea what may have caused it but a previously
healthy and long established tank just had a hiccup.

I hope you have similar luck, for the oxygen reason alone i find it
always pays to have a spare air pump and line for just these
emergencies, without it i'd hate to think how many fish i may have lost



Ozdude wrote:
Oh dear,

Following on from the Sad Day thread:

I lost two of my SAE's and two more Neon Tetras suddenly this evening, just
when I thought everything was okay.

I didn't understand why after changing the water two days in a row (100%
changed in two days) and getting my chemistry right and back to stable
levels, why my fish were still passing away.

Some of you may remember I posted a while back about a Serpae Tetra female
that had what appeared to be an eaten away lower jaw due to "fungus"? (read
on because it's a major sign of what I now suspect is happening)

Well all of the Neons that have passed away have had this white-ish band
across their head from gill to gill.

The band appears seemingly over night, then they gasp at the surface, become
disorientated and then die. My SAE's that passed tonight had darker bands
from gill to gill and one of them was being chased literally to death by a
rampant Hockey Stick Tetra who just wouldn't leave it alone.

Considering that several factors have occurred of late in my tank, such as
high temperature (30 C), dirty substrate (only discovered this two days ago
and have vacuumed it clean each day since), low dissolved oxygen (a fairly
rapid raise in hardness and CO2 combined with the high temperature), stress
(trying to catch 5 BATs and disturbing one and all in the process - also
there has been some inter-species, and in-species (being bothered by mates)
spats) and a pretty big fluctuation in water quality, and slight over
feeding it seems, over the last 3 weeks or so;

I have come to the conclusion that what is now really killing my fish of
could very well be *Columnaris flexibacter*.

All the conditions have been there for it to develop and some of the dead
fish have shown mild external symptoms of it (the bands on the heads, the
dissolved lower jaw of the Serpae, and in the case of the bigger of the
SAE's that died - rapid respiration, lethargy and a complete change in
behavior several hours before and leading up to death).

The two Swords that died a few days ago showed no symptoms what-so-ever -
they just died very quickly, and they were both young and visibly very
healthy.

As Columnaris is gram-negative and contagious in warm de-oxygenated water, I
can state that I am *very worried* it's going to wipe the entire fish
population in my tank out.

The treatment I believe, and I need the more experienced people in the
groups to help me out here with this, is to lower the water temperature,
oxygenate, siphon gravel daily (it reportedly can grow on excess food and
waste on the gravel), change water daily and as a final resort dose with
Potassium Permanganate or Sulfur compounds? Does this sound right?

I have to act quickly on this or it's going to wipe the whole tank out, if
it is C.f..

I honestly can't see it being anything other than this because my water and
gravel are right on spec.

I am also guessing this is the price you pay too for not home quarantining
fish before they go into a tank? or are these bacteria always present in the
water column waiting for the right conditions?

If the worst happens and the entire population gets sick and dies, what is
the procedure for the tank itself?

Would you advise breaking the entire tank down, steralising everything
(especially filters and gravel), dosing the plants in Potassium
Permanganate/Bleach/H2O2 or something?

Oh boy, please help if you can - I think I am in big trouble and I'm about
to lose all of my fish

Many thanks in advance,

Oz

In article ,
Earthenticity wrote:
I can't really comment on your case but a few months ago after doing a
large water change, and then a big feed that i had major health problems
in my tank, fortunately in my case it only affected my tiger barbs.
Symptoms were gasping for oxygen at the surface before losing balance...
I remedied by doing another water change, at 11.30pm mind you, closely
watcheed water quality testing ph and ammonia for next hour and adde an
additional airstone.
Next morning all sick looking fish were recovered with only the one
death.......i have no idea what may have caused it but a previously
healthy and long established tank just had a hiccup.


Could ne a few things.

If the pH is suddenly made more alkaline and there is ammonia
in the water it will become quite toxic. Of, if the tank had
very hard water because of topping up with tapwater after
evaporation and a large water change makes the water more soft
by less that half the hardness or the original water, osmotic
pressure on the gills can lead to osmotic shock and death.

If the lack of oxygen is suspected, Untergasser suggests
3% hydrogen peroxide, no more than 25cc per 100 liters
(I'd use half that dose, frankly). This will nearly instanly
saturate the water with oxygen.

I'd suspect the ammonia/pH thing first though, frankly.

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