Will I regret an uphill drain pipe?

I'm about to start excavating a pond 4' deep with a 55 gal drum filter
(drums 3' high; jj's design). One nagging doubt I have is about the
pipe from the bottom drain to the filter. It'll have to run uphill at
least 1.5' in order to enter the filter. Seems to me that with enough
flow I shouldn't have problems with the pipe clogging, but I'd feel
better about it if the pipe ran down rather than up.

I've considered constructing an extra deep drum from two drums so the
bottom of the drum is below the bottom of the pond, but perhaps this
isn't necessary.

Any opinions?

Chris

"Chris" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm about to start excavating a pond 4' deep with a 55 gal drum filter
(drums 3' high; jj's design). One nagging doubt I have is about the
pipe from the bottom drain to the filter. It'll have to run uphill at
least 1.5' in order to enter the filter. Seems to me that with enough
flow I shouldn't have problems with the pipe clogging, but I'd feel
better about it if the pipe ran down rather than up.

I've considered constructing an extra deep drum from two drums so the
bottom of the drum is below the bottom of the pond, but perhaps this
isn't necessary.

Any opinions?

Chris


To clarify. You have a bottom drain in a pond, and the output of the drain
is 1.5' above drain, which means sediment will eventually collect into
bottom of the pipe. If you design the output into the drum well, every so
often you can backwash the system by turning off the pump and letting the
water flow back into the pond and push the muck back out

Maybe drill a hole near the bottom of the drum, fill the water near the
bottom, so when shut off the pump, you have a few feet of water pressure to
back wash any built up sediment in the pipes.

-S

"Chris" wrote:

I'm about to start excavating a pond 4' deep with a 55 gal drum filter
(drums 3' high; jj's design). One nagging doubt I have is about the
pipe from the bottom drain to the filter. It'll have to run uphill at
least 1.5' in order to enter the filter. Seems to me that with enough
flow I shouldn't have problems with the pipe clogging, but I'd feel
better about it if the pipe ran down rather than up.

Have you considered using a skimmer output rather than a bottom drain.
Bottom drain ponds have more trouble because of sediment, even when they
don't drain uphill.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

I should have clarified two things:

(1) The filter is gravity-fed, with the pump in the final chamber.
That means that with the pump off, the water level in the filter will
be the same as the water level in the pond, so I can't backwash without
using a pump.

(2) I'm building the pond with both a bottom drain and a skimmer, since
it will have a relatively heavy load of leaves from surrounding trees.
I don't want to mess with nets to keep the leaves out.

Chris

Chris,

Put a valve in the bottom drain line between the pond and the first barrel.
Periodically, close the valve and pump the drums down, then open the valve
and the water will rush through at such a pace as to flush anything in the
line.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Chris" wrote in message
ups.com...
I should have clarified two things:

(1) The filter is gravity-fed, with the pump in the final chamber.
That means that with the pump off, the water level in the filter will
be the same as the water level in the pond, so I can't backwash without
using a pump.

(2) I'm building the pond with both a bottom drain and a skimmer, since
it will have a relatively heavy load of leaves from surrounding trees.
I don't want to mess with nets to keep the leaves out.

Chris

Chris,
I've read in more than one place that it is actually *preferable* to
have the pipe run uphill. This way, if there is any gas buildup in
the line, it will move with the flow rather than possibly impeding it.

Regarding sediment buildup, you should have a valve in this line,
(with the handle extended via standpipe up to the surface) so that you
can isolate the BD from the filter. Then pump down the filter, which
will leave a large head pressure differential between the pond and the
filter. Then open the valve, which will blast out any collected
sediment. A couple of trials should give you a good indication of how
much head differential is necessary to do the job.

Finally, in the unlikely event that you will ever need to do so, if
the pipe slopes uphill it will be easier to run a snake down in there
from the filter side to unclog it.

Cheers, David

On 11 Apr 2005 09:17:00 -0700, "Chris" wrote:

I'm about to start excavating a pond 4' deep with a 55 gal drum filter
(drums 3' high; jj's design). One nagging doubt I have is about the
pipe from the bottom drain to the filter. It'll have to run uphill at
least 1.5' in order to enter the filter. Seems to me that with enough
flow I shouldn't have problems with the pipe clogging, but I'd feel
better about it if the pipe ran down rather than up.

I've considered constructing an extra deep drum from two drums so the
bottom of the drum is below the bottom of the pond, but perhaps this
isn't necessary.

Any opinions?

Chris

Hey Rich,
I should have just kept quiet -- you answered while I was writing...
David

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:09:27 -0400, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

Chris,

Put a valve in the bottom drain line between the pond and the first barrel.
Periodically, close the valve and pump the drums down, then open the valve
and the water will rush through at such a pace as to flush anything in the
line.

Ahh. Now I feel better. Thanks for the suggestions. The flush valve
is an excellent idea.

Chris

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:09:27 -0400, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

Chris,
Put a valve in the bottom drain line between the pond and the first barrel.
Periodically, close the valve and pump the drums down, then open the valve
and the water will rush through at such a pace as to flush anything in the
line.

Yup, and he'll definitely need some valve or stand pipe set up to isolate
the barrel to clean it out anyway. Unless Chris, you've put another drain
in the barrel to drain the muck out of it? As you know, I use my shop vac.
My pond/filter system works on siphon effect, so I just open a valve to
stop the siphon, and the D.pond has a ball valve that we open and close
with a Garden Claw.

As far as the pipe going uphill, the important thing is that pipe goes up
or goes down, but doesn't go up and down. As David mentioned about air
bubbles, they can be caught in the top of a pipe that goes up & down. As
long as your flow is good enough, you shouldn't have much sediment able to
stay in the pipe. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
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