Pond in planning stages

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .
Any thoughts on this would be helpful - especially on the need to dig and
if
yes how deep?
==================
If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep
an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will
not survive being frozen solid.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

DUH!


On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of
mumbled something to the effect of:


===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater to keep
===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the fish will
===not survive being frozen solid.

Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would
not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you
did not answer the question either.

YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder
climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you
install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths.
Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe
at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have
kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use
of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of
heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and
if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move
fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do.




==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...


DUH!


On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of
mumbled something to the effect of:


===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater
to keep
===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the
fish will
===not survive being frozen solid.

Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would
not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you
did not answer the question either.

YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder
climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you
install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths.
Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe
at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have
kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use
of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of
heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and
if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move
fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do.




==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with
tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is
a good option and one I have already thought of....

Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of
the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good
2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air.

Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into
the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have
the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think?

Thanks
Gill

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .
Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with
tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater
is
a good option and one I have already thought of....

## And that should work. Since my propagation pools outdoors are on the
surface I drop an inexpensive heater in each one. It floats through a block
of Styrofoam. The fish spend the winter under these dangling heaters. Even
the cheap aquarium ones work and last for years. :-)

Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest
of
the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good
2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air.
Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into
the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and
have
the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think?

## That should work. You also need to keep a hole in the ice for air/gas
exchange. My heaters usually keep a small hole open - but then the pools
are only 150 gallons each. My bigger ponds (800 and 2000 gallons) don't
usually freeze over in winter. If they do it's only for a day or so. A
small cheap pump keeps an opening in the ice.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Gill

What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds
of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during
winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an
opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep
a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of
PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as
well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only
freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or
without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap.......

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

~Roy~ wrote:
Gill

What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds
of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during
winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an
opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep
a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of
PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as
well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only
freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or
without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap.......

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o
I assume we are talking 2.5 to 3 feet below ground.

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...
Gill

What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds
of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during
winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an
opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep
a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of
PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as
well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only
freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or
without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap.......

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

I'm in the South East of England...I have seen frost freeze at least 18
inches of stagnent water (in a wheelbarrow). Plus I had a pond here once
that was around 30inches and the ice didn't seem to kill the fish - the
location did
:-( ....under trees - a lesson hard learnt that has put me off for a good 5
years from trying again...this time I think we have the location right...

Running a heater is not a cheap option but when we already run 6 on the
tropicals I guess one more won't hurt.....I did the ball thing the first
year of my original pond and it seemed to work....

If I get coerced, (which seems quite likely) into the Koi, from what I've
read they would actually appreciate the extra depth....what do you think?

BTW if I gardened naked the colour I would go is blue - LOL

Gill

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...
Gill

What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds
of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during
winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an
opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep
a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of
PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as
well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only
freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or
without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap.......

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

I'm in the South East of England...I have seen frost freeze at least 18
inches of stagnent water (in a wheelbarrow). Plus I had a pond here once
that was around 30inches and the ice didn't seem to kill the fish - the
location did
:-( ....under trees - a lesson hard learnt that has put me off for a good 5
years from trying again...this time I think we have the location right...

Running a heater is not a cheap option but when we already run 6 on the
tropicals I guess one more won't hurt.....I did the ball thing the first
year of my original pond and it seemed to work....

If I get coerced, (which seems quite likely) into the Koi, from what I've
read they would actually appreciate the extra depth....what do you think?

BTW if I gardened naked the colour I would go is blue - LOL

Gill


Why should having your pond under your trees kill your fish? Are they
poisonous? Did they fall into the pond? Of course, you will get debris falling
off them, and leaves in the fall, but you can always pull it out. Regular
maintenance should take care of that problem. In fact, having to regularly
remove debris from the pond has actually made me a better ponder, since I pay
more attention to details. My pond is located partially under a neighbors'
large pin oak tree (it partially grows over the fenceline and shades the part of
my property where the pond is located). I have actually found it to be
beneficial for the pond since it provides shade for the entire morning, so that
the only time the pond is in direct sunlight (all day sun is will usually help
create a real algae monster) is in the afternoon. By evening, the sun is on the
other side of the house, so the pond goes back in shade. As for Koi, as I said
in another post, Koi are wonderful, but can be destructive of plants when they
get large. But they are a lot of fun to raise. I've raised several large
species (I also have a 10 lbs albino channel catfish in the pond), and I have
yet to find a large fish that I like raising better than the Koi (well, I am
partial to the one big cat - he does have quite a personality). But Koi truly
are remarkable fish.

Here is an small movie (in .mov format) of my pond from last year:

http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/catfish_eating.MOV

"George" wrote in message
news:gAQhe.80318$r53.12639@attbi_s21...

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...
Gill

What part of the country are you in? Folks routinely get by with ponds
of 2 1/2 to 3 feet deep up in Rhode Island and Pennnsylvania during
winter months, and not all of them use a heater, but do maintain an
opening in the ice. A simple air pump will work in most cases to keep
a hole in the ice........but an external temporary shelter made out of
PVC pipe framework covered in plastic sheeting does a lot of good as
well. It doe snot matter if your pond is 4 feet deep and it only
freezes to 3 feet the fish will still be ok..............with or
without a heater. Running a heater is not cheap.......

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

I'm in the South East of England...I have seen frost freeze at least 18
inches of stagnent water (in a wheelbarrow). Plus I had a pond here once
that was around 30inches and the ice didn't seem to kill the fish - the
location did
:-( ....under trees - a lesson hard learnt that has put me off for a
good 5
years from trying again...this time I think we have the location
right...

Running a heater is not a cheap option but when we already run 6 on the
tropicals I guess one more won't hurt.....I did the ball thing the first
year of my original pond and it seemed to work....

If I get coerced, (which seems quite likely) into the Koi, from what
I've
read they would actually appreciate the extra depth....what do you
think?

BTW if I gardened naked the colour I would go is blue - LOL

Gill


Why should having your pond under your trees kill your fish? Are they
poisonous? Did they fall into the pond? Of course, you will get debris
falling
off them, and leaves in the fall, but you can always pull it out. Regular
maintenance should take care of that problem. In fact, having to
regularly
remove debris from the pond has actually made me a better ponder, since I
pay
more attention to details. My pond is located partially under a
neighbors'
large pin oak tree (it partially grows over the fenceline and shades the
part of
my property where the pond is located). I have actually found it to be
beneficial for the pond since it provides shade for the entire morning, so
that
the only time the pond is in direct sunlight (all day sun is will usually
help
create a real algae monster) is in the afternoon. By evening, the sun is
on the
other side of the house, so the pond goes back in shade. As for Koi, as I
said
in another post, Koi are wonderful, but can be destructive of plants when
they
get large. But they are a lot of fun to raise. I've raised several large
species (I also have a 10 lbs albino channel catfish in the pond), and I
have
yet to find a large fish that I like raising better than the Koi (well, I
am
partial to the one big cat - he does have quite a personality). But Koi
truly
are remarkable fish.

Here is an small movie (in .mov format) of my pond from last year:

http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/catfish_eating.MOV



The trees in question are sycamores....I spend almost a daily battle
identifying them and pulling them out of my garden right now....even over
150 feet from the source....When we had the pond up there I struggled
pulling out the dead leaves 2-4 times a week from the pond til it became to
dark for me to do this after work......never, ever again will I put a pond
up there.

I know, now, that I could have done a lot more....but if there are easier
places in the garden to site a pond I'm all for it.....BTW that lawn needs
to go in a few years...we all hate mowing....great place for a natural pond
......lol

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...


DUH!


On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:34:51 -0500, "Reel McKoi" of
mumbled something to the effect of:


===If it deep freezes where you live you would need some kind of heater
to keep
===an area unfrozen - or dig below the frost line. As you know the
fish will
===not survive being frozen solid.

Give the folks a break. I am sure they are well aware most fish would
not take kindly to being encased in a block of ice...........And you
did not answer the question either.

YOu can get my with most any depth, but deeper is better in the colder
climes, as you can take advantage of warmer ground temps and if you
install a stock tank heater you can get my with even shallower depths.
Don't take it for granted if the frost level is only 2 feet your safe
at 3 feet......odds are it will bite you one day. A lot of folks have
kept fish in the cold climes at depths of 3 feet or less with the use
of a heater in the pond, or with a shelter over the pond with a bit of
heat inside.......Personally I would make it as deep as I could, and
if it turns out its not quite deep enough add a heat source, or move
fish indoors during winter season as a lot also do.




==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Moving the fish indoors is not an option - we are already over-run with
tropical tanks - 6 at the last count and more planned he, he....a heater is
a good option and one I have already thought of....

Our winters vary....this year was very mild down here but not in the rest of
the UK where there was a big freeze. When I had a pond before I saw a good
2-3 inches of ice - used a football to provide air.

Maybe if I dig down an extra couple of feet where I can without going into
the soakaway this might provide additional sanctuary for the fish - and have
the bulk of it 2-3 feet with a heater - what do you think?

Thanks
Gill


You can contact your local university (a geology department) and find out how
deep the frostline is (the depth at which the soil will freeze over the winter)
in your area, then you should dig at least 5-6 inches to a foot below (deeper is
even better) to make sure that your pond will not freeze solid during a hard
winter. The frostline here is at 22 inches, so the deepest part of my pond
27"deep (but it is also 18 inches aboveground - surrounded and structural held
by 6 inch x 6 inch timbers, so the total depth is 45 inches). I also use an
aerator in the winter and keep my waterfall going as long as possible. When the
water gets around 40 F, I keep the aewrator going, turn off the waterfall, and I
use start to use a pond deicer, which works very well in keeping the worst of
the ice off the surface of the pond. If you decide on raising Koi (they get
large, but are a joy to raise), the aerator will be very important in the
winter, especially if you turn off any circulation you may have. Koi get much
larger than goldfish, and have a higher oxygen demand. Also, if you raise Koi,
you really should have a filtration system. It doesn't have to be expensive, it
just has to work, and preferably be easy to maintain. I hope this helps, and
feel free to come back and ask more questions (and do ignore the trolls). Good
luck.