How much water movement is required for planted tanks?

I have read in many places that good water movement is important in a
planted tank. Supposedly this helps to move waste products from the plants
off of the leaves as some of them are toxic to the plants.

I love the visual effect of the leaves swaying back and forth caused by the
movement. However, the fish (except for the danios) don't seem to like it
much. They hang out under the cover of the plants and only come out to eat.

So, I have two questions:
1 - How much water movement is really necessary for thriving plants?
2 - If the proper amount is anywhere near as high as I have how do you
provide it without upsetting the fish? Obviously I can pick fish that like
a lot of water movement but I have had a hard time find many pretty ones.

Here are the details of my Aquarium:
- 75g
- Heavily planted with various swords, java fern, java moss, anubia barteri,
crypt wendtii, jungle vals, crypt lucens, apongeton, red lilly, crypt
cilliata, anubia congensis
- 10 giant danios, 12 ottocinclus, 3 clown loaches, 1 spotted rafael, 4
three spot gourami, about 8 corydoras, 30 nerite snails, 2 Siamese Algae
Eaters
- 2 Fluval 304s (260 gph each) attached to 4 bio-wheel pros
- 2 powerheads rated at ~250gph each
- CO2 tank / pH controller
- 3.2 watts/gallon of Phillips Plant/Aquarium fluorescent bulbs
- flourish 2-3 times a week
- laterite/flourite/sand substrate
- 200W substrate heater
- pH 6.8
- approximately 80mg/L CaCO3
- approximately 20mg/L CO2
- temp. 80F

On 2005-06-03, Paul A. Ergh wrote:
- 2 Fluval 304s (260 gph each) attached to 4 bio-wheel pros
- 2 powerheads rated at ~250gph each

That sounds like a lot of movement to me! I have just kept HOB filters
for years and never had a problem my plants. They move around plenty
just from the filter flow and from the fish swimming around.

Mostly, I try to keep them moving enough to the water doesn't stagnate
around the leaves - that tends to cause BGA growth. I'd try losing the
powerheads, if I were in your place.

--
Ross Vandegrift

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

"Ross Vandegrift" wrote in message
...
"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37




Creationist?????
--
Kind Regards
Cameron

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:25:47 -0400, "Paul A. Ergh"
wrote:

I have read in many places that good water movement is important in a
planted tank. Supposedly this helps to move waste products from the plants
off of the leaves as some of them are toxic to the plants.

I love the visual effect of the leaves swaying back and forth caused by the
movement. However, the fish (except for the danios) don't seem to like it
much. They hang out under the cover of the plants and only come out to eat.

So, I have two questions:
1 - How much water movement is really necessary for thriving plants?
2 - If the proper amount is anywhere near as high as I have how do you
provide it without upsetting the fish? Obviously I can pick fish that like
a lot of water movement but I have had a hard time find many pretty ones.

Here are the details of my Aquarium:
- 75g
- Heavily planted with various swords, java fern, java moss, anubia barteri,
crypt wendtii, jungle vals, crypt lucens, apongeton, red lilly, crypt
cilliata, anubia congensis
- 10 giant danios, 12 ottocinclus, 3 clown loaches, 1 spotted rafael, 4
three spot gourami, about 8 corydoras, 30 nerite snails, 2 Siamese Algae
Eaters
- 2 Fluval 304s (260 gph each) attached to 4 bio-wheel pros
- 2 powerheads rated at ~250gph each
- CO2 tank / pH controller
- 3.2 watts/gallon of Phillips Plant/Aquarium fluorescent bulbs
- flourish 2-3 times a week
- laterite/flourite/sand substrate
- 200W substrate heater
- pH 6.8
- approximately 80mg/L CaCO3
- approximately 20mg/L CO2
- temp. 80F

I have a 75 gallon tank with 2 Penguin 330 power filters and a 10 inch
bubbler. The tank "low light" plants can be seen to be in constant
motion. I like the notion of the moving water keeping uniform water
conditions especially water temperature. My 5 tanks all have bubblers
and power filters. My only problem is algae that forms on the glass
above the air stream. I need to clean the glass every month or so.

Actually, I didn't add the bubblers for scientific reasons, I just
like the looks of a bubble stream.

dick

On 2005-06-03, Happy'Cam'per wrote:
Creationist?????

Mathematician ::-)


--
Ross Vandegrift

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

It really isn't as much as it may seem like. With the fluvals connected to
the bio-wheel pros there is really very little movement created by them as
the output is split across the two standard fluval outputs and 4 bio-wheel
pros. One of the power heads has the CO2 output going into its air intake
so it can't be shut off unless I rework my CO2 injection. It is also an
auto-rotating style head so it doesn't create a constant flow in single
direction.

I did turn off the second power head to see if is better or worse.
Initially it is clear that it makes it harder for the CO2 to be absorbed as
the additional movement was helping the bubbles get circulated and absorbed.
It has also drastically cut down the amount of "swaying" effect of the plant
leaves that I liked so much. However, a couple of the fish have started to
come back out. So, I will leave it this way for a while and see how it
goes.


"Ross Vandegrift" wrote in message
...
On 2005-06-03, Paul A. Ergh wrote:
- 2 Fluval 304s (260 gph each) attached to 4 bio-wheel pros
- 2 powerheads rated at ~250gph each

That sounds like a lot of movement to me! I have just kept HOB filters
for years and never had a problem my plants. They move around plenty
just from the filter flow and from the fish swimming around.

Mostly, I try to keep them moving enough to the water doesn't stagnate
around the leaves - that tends to cause BGA growth. I'd try losing the
powerheads, if I were in your place.

--
Ross Vandegrift

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37