Trouble with red plant

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise...

I currently have a planted tank with pressurised CO2, MH lighting and cable
heating and I'm trying to grow Rotala Macranda, Rotala Waluchi and
Limnophilla Aromatica and I'm having some trouble.

My Limnophilla is growing, but it's is green, the tanks i have seen in on
the net have this deep red plant which is really bushy, mine has about 3/4
of and inch of stem between leaves and only rarely gets a purple tinge.

My Rotala Macranda went through a meltdown when I put it into the tank, I
read on www.thekrib.com that this could possibly be a calcium deficiency so
I went to the local pharmacy and puchased some calcium citrate tables. I
now have growth back on my Macranda, but is is also lacking the deep red and
the leaves are small.

The Rotala Waluchi is the same as the Macranda. It is starting to grow back
but lacks the redness...

On the other hand I have a Red Tiger Lilly (or is it lotus?) that appears
deep red.

I have dupla iron balls under all plants, the Iron in my water column is
between .1 and .2. I dose twice a week with Seachem Flourish and seachem
Iron, also dosing Seachem Potassium and Nitrogen where needed. My PH is
6.6-7.2 KH 2. Water changes twice a week amounting to 1/3. I'm in
Austrlaia so we lack any Nitrogen, Potassium or Phosphate in our water, so I
add them as needed on advise from my local fish store.

Can anyone advise where I might be going wrong? I previously read an
argument on the Krib about seachem's iron not staying in solution long
enough, could this be the cause? I used to use Dupla Iron tabs and stick
them in the gravel after water changes which kept my Iron a bit higher,
should I go back to this?

thanks in advance.

Justin.

Justin wrote:
Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise...

I currently have a planted tank with pressurised CO2, MH lighting and cable
heating and I'm trying to grow Rotala Macranda, Rotala Waluchi and
Limnophilla Aromatica and I'm having some trouble.

My Limnophilla is growing, but it's is green, the tanks i have seen in on
the net have this deep red plant which is really bushy, mine has about 3/4
of and inch of stem between leaves and only rarely gets a purple tinge.

My Rotala Macranda went through a meltdown when I put it into the tank, I
read on www.thekrib.com that this could possibly be a calcium deficiency so
I went to the local pharmacy and puchased some calcium citrate tables. I
now have growth back on my Macranda, but is is also lacking the deep red
and
the leaves are small.

The Rotala Waluchi is the same as the Macranda. It is starting to grow
back
but lacks the redness...

On the other hand I have a Red Tiger Lilly (or is it lotus?) that appears
deep red.

I have dupla iron balls under all plants, the Iron in my water column is
between .1 and .2. I dose twice a week with Seachem Flourish and seachem
Iron, also dosing Seachem Potassium and Nitrogen where needed. My PH is
6.6-7.2 KH 2. Water changes twice a week amounting to 1/3. I'm in
Austrlaia so we lack any Nitrogen, Potassium or Phosphate in our water,
so I
add them as needed on advise from my local fish store.

Can anyone advise where I might be going wrong? I previously read an
argument on the Krib about seachem's iron not staying in solution long
enough, could this be the cause? I used to use Dupla Iron tabs and stick
them in the gravel after water changes which kept my Iron a bit higher,
should I go back to this?

thanks in advance.

Justin.

I saw the first time you posted this, but it looks like you're doing
everything right to me. I've grown R. macranda in the past, but just
melted a bunch of R. "magenta" myself and I don't know where I went wrong.

The legginess of the Limnophilla and the R. macranda meltdown sound sort
of like inadequate lighting, although that's hard to imagine under MH
lights. You might try positioning them right under the MH light with no
other plants shading them.

In this article, http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/barr_02_01.shtml, Tom
Barr says to keep iron at 0.2 to 0.5 ppm, only using the lower end of
0.2 if you have substrate iron. So maybe more iron would help,
particularly if any of your other plants are showing signs of chlorosis.
The other thing to consider is magnesium. Plants need magnesium to
use iron so magnesium deficiency looks a lot like iron deficiency.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm will calculate
stock solutions and dosing for many plant nutrients including magnesium
sulfate (epsom salts).

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Thank you for this response Elaine! Your response was very thorough and the
links are a great help.

I wasn't sure if my post went through, so I reposted.... Sorry everyone.

I am using flourish which has some magnesium, but maybe not enough... I am
using dupla latererite balls (originally had dupla laterite, but the
aquarium has been established for about a year so it's run out) The flourish
didn't have enough calcium, so maybe not enough magnesium either...

I am also worried about over-dosing... I just started dosing various
nutrients e.g. calcium, potassium, nitrogen and phosphate but i only have a
test kit for nitrogen...

I very rarely add phosphate (only add a small amount when my sword starts
showing green spot algae), I add potassium at every water change (the
flourish postassium and I add enough to increase by 2ppm), nitrate I measue
with my kit and dose accordingly to keep at 5ppm and for calcium, I just
stick a calcium tablet under the Rotala's.

Am I on the right track?

Thank you once again everyone. Your advise is very appreciated.

Justin.

"Elaine T" wrote in message
...
Justin wrote:
Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise...

I currently have a planted tank with pressurised CO2, MH lighting and
cable
heating and I'm trying to grow Rotala Macranda, Rotala Waluchi and
Limnophilla Aromatica and I'm having some trouble.

My Limnophilla is growing, but it's is green, the tanks i have seen in on
the net have this deep red plant which is really bushy, mine has about
3/4
of and inch of stem between leaves and only rarely gets a purple tinge.

My Rotala Macranda went through a meltdown when I put it into the tank, I
read on www.thekrib.com that this could possibly be a calcium deficiency
so
I went to the local pharmacy and puchased some calcium citrate tables. I
now have growth back on my Macranda, but is is also lacking the deep red
and
the leaves are small.

The Rotala Waluchi is the same as the Macranda. It is starting to grow
back
but lacks the redness...

On the other hand I have a Red Tiger Lilly (or is it lotus?) that appears
deep red.

I have dupla iron balls under all plants, the Iron in my water column is
between .1 and .2. I dose twice a week with Seachem Flourish and seachem
Iron, also dosing Seachem Potassium and Nitrogen where needed. My PH is
6.6-7.2 KH 2. Water changes twice a week amounting to 1/3. I'm in
Austrlaia so we lack any Nitrogen, Potassium or Phosphate in our water,
so I
add them as needed on advise from my local fish store.

Can anyone advise where I might be going wrong? I previously read an
argument on the Krib about seachem's iron not staying in solution long
enough, could this be the cause? I used to use Dupla Iron tabs and stick
them in the gravel after water changes which kept my Iron a bit higher,
should I go back to this?

thanks in advance.

Justin.

I saw the first time you posted this, but it looks like you're doing
everything right to me. I've grown R. macranda in the past, but just
melted a bunch of R. "magenta" myself and I don't know where I went wrong.

The legginess of the Limnophilla and the R. macranda meltdown sound sort
of like inadequate lighting, although that's hard to imagine under MH
lights. You might try positioning them right under the MH light with no
other plants shading them.

In this article, http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/barr_02_01.shtml, Tom
Barr says to keep iron at 0.2 to 0.5 ppm, only using the lower end of 0.2
if you have substrate iron. So maybe more iron would help, particularly
if any of your other plants are showing signs of chlorosis. The other
thing to consider is magnesium. Plants need magnesium to use iron so
magnesium deficiency looks a lot like iron deficiency.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm will calculate
stock solutions and dosing for many plant nutrients including magnesium
sulfate (epsom salts).

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Justin wrote:
I am also worried about over-dosing... I just started dosing various
nutrients e.g. calcium, potassium, nitrogen and phosphate but i only have a
test kit for nitrogen...


You don't need a test kit, especially doing all the water changes.
See Estimative index on the site below.
If you do a 50% weekly water change, the most you build up to it 2x the
weekly dosing amount.

So if you dose 10ppm of NO3 per week, then the max amount of build up
with no growth or plant uptake would be 20ppm.

It does NOT increase infinitely straight up, it levels off and never
quite makes it to 20ppm.

I very rarely add phosphate (only add a small amount when my sword starts
showing green spot algae), I add potassium at every water change (the
flourish postassium and I add enough to increase by 2ppm), nitrate I measue
with my kit and dose accordingly to keep at 5ppm and for calcium, I just
stick a calcium tablet under the Rotala's.

Am I on the right track?

Thank you once again everyone. Your advise is very appreciated.

Justin.


I think more CO2 definitely, Give the pH/KH range there, you cannot
have enough.

Target should 30ppm, especially with high light.

KNO3
KH2PO4
Traces, either TMG or SeaChem Flourish are good, so is Sera.
Dupla is bit pricey, it might be cheaper there.
For GH: CaCl2 and MgSO4 are good, a test kit will tell if you neen need
to add that(it's fine if it's 3 degrees or higher, same for KH)
KH: baking soda

These are the only real things you might need, if you want higher K+
levels, K2SO4 works well.

How big is your tank?
The plants sound like there is a NO3 deficiency.
Test kits are cheap and poor accuracy, test them against a known
concentration standard to see if they are accurate.
Few brands are. Lamotte and Hach have been the most consistent and also
run the most $$.

But you can estimate the NO3 range easy enough without any testing
other than pH.

A pH probe style monitor are worth their weight in gold for checking
CO2 FYI.
Why do you use a heating cable in Oz?

Regards,
Tom Barr

How big is your tank?
Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

Hi all,

Thanks for the further info!!

To answer the questions (admittedly, I should have included this...)

52 gallon (200 Litre) tank
Ph is 7 in the morning and I aim for 6.6 at night.
KH 2 degrees
GH is around 3 degrees
NO3 is 5ppm
I perform a 40lt (approx 10 gallon) water change on Sunday and a 20lt (half
gallon) water change wednesdays

I have just made a batch of Magnesium from Epsom Salts as per the page given
by Elaine and added that. My Iron I've just lifted to just above 0.4.

I would like to use TMG, but unfortunately it is not availible here in
australia... Seachem is only availible in one state in australia and that
is on the other side of OZ... We have very generic brands of fertilizer
here is australia... Dupla is availible, but is VERY VERY expensive and
only a few places stock it as it's too expensive for most people. I started
out on dupla plant 24, but changed to flourish and my plants are growing
better with that. However, I have just gone back to dupla iron tab's as
they are good and i feel they stay in solution longer than flourish iron (i
put the tab's in the gravel whole and they slowly disolve, so that is also
maybe why they keep the iron higher for longer)

KNO3 KH2PO4 would not be that easy to obtain in Australia...

I use cable heating here as I'm in the south part of australia, where it can
go down to 10 degrees celcius at night. Also, when I was setting up my
planted tank, I was told that it was a must. On another tank w/out gravel
heating, the stones were getting black stuff in them and there were
(anerobic) bacteria building up causing the plants to rot at the base...

I am saving up for a PH probe and have decided on the American Marine PH
controller. That way I can take my KH a bit higher... I would like my KH
to be 3, but w/out the PH controller, in the mornings my PH would be about
7.2 - 7.4 which is a bit high... Especially as I am going to change my fish
to Discus...

Thank you all.

Justin.



wrote in message
ups.com...


Justin wrote:
I am also worried about over-dosing... I just started dosing various
nutrients e.g. calcium, potassium, nitrogen and phosphate but i only have
a
test kit for nitrogen...


You don't need a test kit, especially doing all the water changes.
See Estimative index on the site below.
If you do a 50% weekly water change, the most you build up to it 2x the
weekly dosing amount.

So if you dose 10ppm of NO3 per week, then the max amount of build up
with no growth or plant uptake would be 20ppm.

It does NOT increase infinitely straight up, it levels off and never
quite makes it to 20ppm.

I very rarely add phosphate (only add a small amount when my sword starts
showing green spot algae), I add potassium at every water change (the
flourish postassium and I add enough to increase by 2ppm), nitrate I
measue
with my kit and dose accordingly to keep at 5ppm and for calcium, I just
stick a calcium tablet under the Rotala's.

Am I on the right track?

Thank you once again everyone. Your advise is very appreciated.

Justin.


I think more CO2 definitely, Give the pH/KH range there, you cannot
have enough.

Target should 30ppm, especially with high light.

KNO3
KH2PO4
Traces, either TMG or SeaChem Flourish are good, so is Sera.
Dupla is bit pricey, it might be cheaper there.
For GH: CaCl2 and MgSO4 are good, a test kit will tell if you neen need
to add that(it's fine if it's 3 degrees or higher, same for KH)
KH: baking soda

These are the only real things you might need, if you want higher K+
levels, K2SO4 works well.

How big is your tank?
The plants sound like there is a NO3 deficiency.
Test kits are cheap and poor accuracy, test them against a known
concentration standard to see if they are accurate.
Few brands are. Lamotte and Hach have been the most consistent and also
run the most $$.

But you can estimate the NO3 range easy enough without any testing
other than pH.

A pH probe style monitor are worth their weight in gold for checking
CO2 FYI.
Why do you use a heating cable in Oz?

Regards,
Tom Barr

Hi Justin

Sounds to me like you might not have enough light over the tank,
especially since you supplement iron. What is the watt/gal ratio?

Which part of Australia are you in? I am in WA and I am gathering up
the bits to put a tank together. Where do you get CO2 from?

Cheers

Alfred


--
Alfred

Hi Alfred,

I don't know my watts/gall, but I have a 150watt MH over a 2ftx2ftx2ft cube
tank. I get my CO2 from a local aquarium...

Surely someone in WA would fill your bottle... have you approached the guys
at www.aquaria.com.au, they are really friendly and their plants are great,
always in great condition and they are pretty good prices too... Maybe they
can let you know, they sell Dupla bottles so they may know where to have
them filled...

Hope this helps.

Justin.

P.S. I'm in victoria


"Alfred" wrote in message
...

Hi Justin

Sounds to me like you might not have enough light over the tank,
especially since you supplement iron. What is the watt/gal ratio?

Which part of Australia are you in? I am in WA and I am gathering up
the bits to put a tank together. Where do you get CO2 from?

Cheers

Alfred


--
Alfred

Looks like a 60 gal tank so you have plenty of light. What is the
colour temperature?


--
Alfred