Filtering with Carbon

Shagster wrote:
That "brown'ish tint" is exactly what I'm trying to remove..... I think
I'll try throwing some carbon in, and giving it a shot for a while...

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Troy



Activated carbon filtration mainly removes dissolved organic carbons
(D.O.C.). The D.O.C. gives the water a brownish tint, which the carbon
removes nicely.
Steve


I think that may be "dissolved organic compunds".

The carbon I'm currently using is "Black Diamond premium activated
carbon" from Marineland Aquarium Products. I've also had good luck with
other "premium" or "high quality" carbon, including the "Magnum" brand.
The cheaper stuff (Hagen etc) works too, but seems to last less long and
absorb water tints more slowly. Here in Canada I've occasionally seen
"aquarium charcoal", which I'd avoid. It has to be "activated carbon" or
"activated" charcoal to do any good.

Good luck! Activated carbon seems to be pretty harmless stuff and it's
hard to see how you could go wrong with it. Perhaps just make sure to
wash out any very fine carbon dust first. Before use I put my carbon in
its mesh bag, then submerge it in a bucket of water and swish it around.
Steve

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:57:46 -0400, Steve wrote:

Dick wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:09:13 -0400, "Shagster"
wrote:


My water just isn't as crystal clear as I would like it to be... Even with
a 18 Watt UV Sterilizer (Turbo Twist).. Thought the carbon might help..


"Dick" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:32:51 -0400, "Troy Bruder"
wrote:


I dose my planted tank with Tropica Master Grow and Flourish Iron... If I
add activated carbon to my canister filter, will I simplying be removing
the
fertlizers by way of the carbon??

Thanks,
Troy


Why do you want to add carbon? Unless you have some special reason to
use it, don't. I quit using carbon in my 5 planted tanks about a year
ago. No regrets. Glad to be rid of the nasty stuff. I keep it
around in case I find some special need, something to remove, but it
hasn't come up yet.

dick



I like crystal clear water also. I love the added depth in color I
see.

The chemicals absorbed by charcoal are not visible so far as I know.

You can buy filter media that strains out smaller particles. You will
need to clean it more often however. I use a fine media in two of my
larger tanks. I continue even though my 10 gallon tanks are crystal
clear with regular media.

My theory of filtration is this: The water coming from the tank
carries solids from the tank. Passing through the media strains out
the larger particles, but smaller particle pass through and back into
the tank where the bacteria change it into a useable form. Thus, the
bacteria really clean the solids. Those larger particles held back by
the filter, don't stay large. Erosion reduces their size and they
then return to the tank. I theorize that this particle reduction is
the real value of filtration as it makes it easier for the bacteria to
do their job.

I have a 29 gallon "Jebo" tank with a built in filtration system. It
has a submersible water pump that moves the tank water to a tube with
holes which deposits the water over two holding tanks. The media is
laid in the holding tanks between the tube and the bottom thus gravity
provides the flow through the media. Ceramic donuts are under the
media and the water flows from the bottom to the right end where it
continues its "clean" flow back down into the tank. It has so much
surface area I rarely have to clean the media.

Do you have live plants? I have faith that they are important. I
even keep them in my graveless "hospital" tank.

I wish I could tell you some magic that makes tanks' crystal clear. I
have tried various approaches and now that my tanks are clear, I can't
say how they got that way. I do stay clear of any chemicals. I add
nothing but flake food, air bubbles and filtration. I even removed
the "bio wheels" from my 75 gallon tank as I realized I was doing
additional maintenance just to keep the water flow needed to keep them
turning. My three 10 gallon tanks all have Whisper Jr. filters. (I
removed their charcoal over a year ago). These are the tanks with
regular media. I rarely need to clean the media. One of the filters
pumps half the water though compared to the other two. I am tempted
to turn it off and see what happens. It is hard to believe the
trickle of water through this filter is helping. This tank has only
snails for scavengers and yet it is great looking, lots of plant
growth even though the first year I could hardly get the plants to
grow.

I think tanks mature. Somewhere along the way they become self
sustaining. I have had my 5 tanks for over 2 years. The first year
was the hardest. I do change 20% of the water twice weekly.

I would suggest staying clear of chemicals. I have had bad luck with
them. "Natural Selection" will kill off fish and plants not
compatible and those comfortable with your tank will survive.

Good luck. Whether your efforts or time bring the desired water
clarity it is hard to say.

dick

Activated carbon filtration mainly removes dissolved organic carbons
(D.O.C.). The D.O.C. gives the water a brownish tint, which the carbon
removes nicely.
Steve

Interesting. One problem I have avoided somehow. Where does the
D.O.C, come from? Dead vegetation, particular foods, or what? My 5
tanks have never shown a brownish tint. Is it a common problem?

dick

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:57:46 -0400, Steve wrote:

Dick wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:09:13 -0400, "Shagster"
wrote:


My water just isn't as crystal clear as I would like it to be... Even with
a 18 Watt UV Sterilizer (Turbo Twist).. Thought the carbon might help..


"Dick" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:32:51 -0400, "Troy Bruder"
wrote:


I dose my planted tank with Tropica Master Grow and Flourish Iron... If I
add activated carbon to my canister filter, will I simplying be removing
the
fertlizers by way of the carbon??

Thanks,
Troy


Why do you want to add carbon? Unless you have some special reason to
use it, don't. I quit using carbon in my 5 planted tanks about a year
ago. No regrets. Glad to be rid of the nasty stuff. I keep it
around in case I find some special need, something to remove, but it
hasn't come up yet.

dick



I like crystal clear water also. I love the added depth in color I
see.

The chemicals absorbed by charcoal are not visible so far as I know.

You can buy filter media that strains out smaller particles. You will
need to clean it more often however. I use a fine media in two of my
larger tanks. I continue even though my 10 gallon tanks are crystal
clear with regular media.

My theory of filtration is this: The water coming from the tank
carries solids from the tank. Passing through the media strains out
the larger particles, but smaller particle pass through and back into
the tank where the bacteria change it into a useable form. Thus, the
bacteria really clean the solids. Those larger particles held back by
the filter, don't stay large. Erosion reduces their size and they
then return to the tank. I theorize that this particle reduction is
the real value of filtration as it makes it easier for the bacteria to
do their job.

I have a 29 gallon "Jebo" tank with a built in filtration system. It
has a submersible water pump that moves the tank water to a tube with
holes which deposits the water over two holding tanks. The media is
laid in the holding tanks between the tube and the bottom thus gravity
provides the flow through the media. Ceramic donuts are under the
media and the water flows from the bottom to the right end where it
continues its "clean" flow back down into the tank. It has so much
surface area I rarely have to clean the media.

Do you have live plants? I have faith that they are important. I
even keep them in my graveless "hospital" tank.

I wish I could tell you some magic that makes tanks' crystal clear. I
have tried various approaches and now that my tanks are clear, I can't
say how they got that way. I do stay clear of any chemicals. I add
nothing but flake food, air bubbles and filtration. I even removed
the "bio wheels" from my 75 gallon tank as I realized I was doing
additional maintenance just to keep the water flow needed to keep them
turning. My three 10 gallon tanks all have Whisper Jr. filters. (I
removed their charcoal over a year ago). These are the tanks with
regular media. I rarely need to clean the media. One of the filters
pumps half the water though compared to the other two. I am tempted
to turn it off and see what happens. It is hard to believe the
trickle of water through this filter is helping. This tank has only
snails for scavengers and yet it is great looking, lots of plant
growth even though the first year I could hardly get the plants to
grow.

I think tanks mature. Somewhere along the way they become self
sustaining. I have had my 5 tanks for over 2 years. The first year
was the hardest. I do change 20% of the water twice weekly.

I would suggest staying clear of chemicals. I have had bad luck with
them. "Natural Selection" will kill off fish and plants not
compatible and those comfortable with your tank will survive.

Good luck. Whether your efforts or time bring the desired water
clarity it is hard to say.

dick

Activated carbon filtration mainly removes dissolved organic carbons
(D.O.C.). The D.O.C. gives the water a brownish tint, which the carbon
removes nicely.
Steve

I did a Google on D.O.C. and found a lot of information. I gather
there are many sources, but not all are visible. It will be
interesting to hear if Shagster is able to clear the brown with
Charcoal. Personally, I would be looking for the source in the tank
in order to remove the carbon source.

http://pearl.spatial.maine.edu/glossary/misc/doc.htm

dick

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:18:18 -0400, "Shagster"
wrote:

That "brown'ish tint" is exactly what I'm trying to remove..... I think
I'll try throwing some carbon in, and giving it a shot for a while...

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Troy

Please let us know if it works. I did a Google and found lots of
information. Here is one site:

http://pearl.spatial.maine.edu/glossary/misc/doc.htm

dick

Dick wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:57:46 -0400, Steve wrote:
Activated carbon filtration mainly removes dissolved organic carbons
(D.O.C.). The D.O.C. gives the water a brownish tint, which the carbon
removes nicely.
Steve


Interesting. One problem I have avoided somehow. Where does the
D.O.C, come from? Dead vegetation, particular foods, or what? My 5
tanks have never shown a brownish tint. Is it a common problem?

dick
Try using a white 5-gal pail for water changes, and you'll probably see
the brownish tint in your aquarium water. You may possibly see colour in
your tap water too, which is why they sell activated carbon filters for
drinking water (removes taste, odour, colour).
Steve

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:57:07 -0400, Steve wrote:

Dick wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:57:46 -0400, Steve wrote:
Activated carbon filtration mainly removes dissolved organic carbons
(D.O.C.). The D.O.C. gives the water a brownish tint, which the carbon
removes nicely.
Steve


Interesting. One problem I have avoided somehow. Where does the
D.O.C, come from? Dead vegetation, particular foods, or what? My 5
tanks have never shown a brownish tint. Is it a common problem?

dick
Try using a white 5-gal pail for water changes, and you'll probably see
the brownish tint in your aquarium water. You may possibly see colour in
your tap water too, which is why they sell activated carbon filters for
drinking water (removes taste, odour, colour).
Steve

I have a tap water filter, but consider it a waste except its separate
spigot is handy to fill a glass. Otherwise I see or taste no
difference from the straight tap water. I suppose some community
water needs extra filtration.

I used to change out the charcoal in my filters. In fact I still have
a large bag of activated charcoal I am not using, but keep "just in
case." I also have Whisper Junior filters with carbon packages. I
just don't use the carbon.

I change water in my 10 gallon tanks with a 2 gallon white pail. The
only color I notice is due to sediment or milkyness when I had a
"cycling" problem. The 29 and 75 gallon tanks show discoloration
plainly by viewing from the end. I use to have water clarity
problems, but not in the last 6 months and even in the past never
bothered by a brown color.

Carbon is an element common to all life forms. Particular carbon
sources which lead to the brown coloration would be my focus even if
the charcoal did remove the color. What is in the tank that is
leading to the color? I might even find a brown coloration good
contrast to some fish and wouldn't bother with it if I convinced
myself it wasn't harmful.

I have a nagging thought in my head, brown coloration and some kind of
moss or wood. Anyone else connect those together?

dick

Dick wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:57:07 -0400, Steve wrote:

Try using a white 5-gal pail for water changes, and you'll probably see
the brownish tint in your aquarium water. You may possibly see colour in
your tap water too, which is why they sell activated carbon filters for
drinking water (removes taste, odour, colour).
Steve


I have a tap water filter, but consider it a waste except its separate
spigot is handy to fill a glass. Otherwise I see or taste no
difference from the straight tap water. I suppose some community
water needs extra filtration.

I used to change out the charcoal in my filters. In fact I still have
a large bag of activated charcoal I am not using, but keep "just in
case." I also have Whisper Junior filters with carbon packages. I
just don't use the carbon.

I change water in my 10 gallon tanks with a 2 gallon white pail. The
only color I notice is due to sediment or milkyness when I had a
"cycling" problem. The 29 and 75 gallon tanks show discoloration
plainly by viewing from the end. I use to have water clarity
problems, but not in the last 6 months and even in the past never
bothered by a brown color.

Carbon is an element common to all life forms. Particular carbon
sources which lead to the brown coloration would be my focus even if
the charcoal did remove the color. What is in the tank that is
leading to the color? I might even find a brown coloration good
contrast to some fish and wouldn't bother with it if I convinced
myself it wasn't harmful.

I have a nagging thought in my head, brown coloration and some kind of
moss or wood. Anyone else connect those together?

dick
Dick,
Reading the links you provided, and others found via google I interpret
that tannins, etc as from bogwood and peat can colour the water, and
that these are the same as, or similar to, D.O.C. Also, fish food,
waste, and dead plant material eventually become dissolved organic
carbon. That is, unless you remove them by gravel siphoning, cleaning
the filter, and so forth.

I think that a bit of colour in the water is not a problem; however
activated carbon will remove it, making old change water more clear than
tap water. The colour of the water from my aquariums varies, but the
only one with totally colourless water is the one, in which I'm using
carbon filtration. The most coloration is water from a 15-gallon tank
having Eclipse bio-wheel filtration and two pretty big Comet Shibunkin
goldfish. This goldfish tank's water (in a white bucket) appears quite
reddish, as though there's some oxidation. This is my only biowheel, and
there is no carbon: I use foam instead of the carbon-filled filter pads
that are sold for this unit.

By the way, thanks for the link to Maine.edu; interesting.
Steve

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:57:46 -0400, Steve wrote:

Dick wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:09:13 -0400, "Shagster"
wrote:


My water just isn't as crystal clear as I would like it to be... Even with
a 18 Watt UV Sterilizer (Turbo Twist).. Thought the carbon might help..


"Dick" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:32:51 -0400, "Troy Bruder"
wrote:


I dose my planted tank with Tropica Master Grow and Flourish Iron... If I
add activated carbon to my canister filter, will I simplying be removing
the
fertlizers by way of the carbon??

Thanks,
Troy


Why do you want to add carbon? Unless you have some special reason to
use it, don't. I quit using carbon in my 5 planted tanks about a year
ago. No regrets. Glad to be rid of the nasty stuff. I keep it
around in case I find some special need, something to remove, but it
hasn't come up yet.

dick



I like crystal clear water also. I love the added depth in color I
see.

The chemicals absorbed by charcoal are not visible so far as I know.

You can buy filter media that strains out smaller particles. You will
need to clean it more often however. I use a fine media in two of my
larger tanks. I continue even though my 10 gallon tanks are crystal
clear with regular media.

My theory of filtration is this: The water coming from the tank
carries solids from the tank. Passing through the media strains out
the larger particles, but smaller particle pass through and back into
the tank where the bacteria change it into a useable form. Thus, the
bacteria really clean the solids. Those larger particles held back by
the filter, don't stay large. Erosion reduces their size and they
then return to the tank. I theorize that this particle reduction is
the real value of filtration as it makes it easier for the bacteria to
do their job.

I have a 29 gallon "Jebo" tank with a built in filtration system. It
has a submersible water pump that moves the tank water to a tube with
holes which deposits the water over two holding tanks. The media is
laid in the holding tanks between the tube and the bottom thus gravity
provides the flow through the media. Ceramic donuts are under the
media and the water flows from the bottom to the right end where it
continues its "clean" flow back down into the tank. It has so much
surface area I rarely have to clean the media.

Do you have live plants? I have faith that they are important. I
even keep them in my graveless "hospital" tank.

I wish I could tell you some magic that makes tanks' crystal clear. I
have tried various approaches and now that my tanks are clear, I can't
say how they got that way. I do stay clear of any chemicals. I add
nothing but flake food, air bubbles and filtration. I even removed
the "bio wheels" from my 75 gallon tank as I realized I was doing
additional maintenance just to keep the water flow needed to keep them
turning. My three 10 gallon tanks all have Whisper Jr. filters. (I
removed their charcoal over a year ago). These are the tanks with
regular media. I rarely need to clean the media. One of the filters
pumps half the water though compared to the other two. I am tempted
to turn it off and see what happens. It is hard to believe the
trickle of water through this filter is helping. This tank has only
snails for scavengers and yet it is great looking, lots of plant
growth even though the first year I could hardly get the plants to
grow.

I think tanks mature. Somewhere along the way they become self
sustaining. I have had my 5 tanks for over 2 years. The first year
was the hardest. I do change 20% of the water twice weekly.

I would suggest staying clear of chemicals. I have had bad luck with
them. "Natural Selection" will kill off fish and plants not
compatible and those comfortable with your tank will survive.

Good luck. Whether your efforts or time bring the desired water
clarity it is hard to say.

dick

Activated carbon filtration mainly removes dissolved organic carbons
(D.O.C.). The D.O.C. gives the water a brownish tint, which the carbon
removes nicely.
Steve

Steve, I will no longer refer to my water as "crystal clear!" While
doing my partial water changes in the 3 ten gallon tanks today, I
could see a brown tint in the tank water in comparison to the tap
water.

Now, are you and Troy suggesting any harm coming from the D.O.C. or
seeking maximum clarity?

If you are suggesting harm, in what form would it be noticed to the
fish or plants?

Unless there is harm indicated, personally, I would not want to commit
my self to regular charcoal changes every 2 or 3 weeks to rid this
brown hue which I didn't even notice without you and Troy mentioning
it.

dick

There is no harm from the tannins. Infact for some fisk like discus and
cardinal tetras there is some benifit. Many people filter with peat and
add blackwater extract because it softens the water some. Most people
with heavly planted tanks do not carbon because it will take out iron
and other nutrients that are used by the plants. The only time I would
use it is if I had to medicate the tank with copper for ich, etc.

Dick wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:57:46 -0400, Steve wrote:


Steve, I will no longer refer to my water as "crystal clear!" While
doing my partial water changes in the 3 ten gallon tanks today, I
could see a brown tint in the tank water in comparison to the tap
water.

Now, are you and Troy suggesting any harm coming from the D.O.C. or
seeking maximum clarity?

If you are suggesting harm, in what form would it be noticed to the
fish or plants?

Unless there is harm indicated, personally, I would not want to commit
my self to regular charcoal changes every 2 or 3 weeks to rid this
brown hue which I didn't even notice without you and Troy mentioning
it.

dick

Spotte, Stephen. H. 1970 Fish & Invertebrate Cultu Water Management
in Closed Systems. Wiley-Interscience. New York. I think this is the
library book I read in early 90's that talked about D.O.C. Spotte was
curator of a large public aquarium at the time, and a big proponent of
biological filtration and also activated carbon. He described carbon
reactors made from empty oil drums!! Spotte presented some evidence that
D.O.C. can inhibit the growth and health of organisms.

For home aquariums I agree with you and think that water changes and
filter cleaning should keep D.O.C. and other nasties below harmful
levels. Carbon can produce crystal-clear water however, and that's why I
sometimes like to use it. It also lets me be a little lazier about
maintenance (?).
Steve