Seachem's NPK products, Australian planted aquarium and Correct Ratio's

Rocco,

Here is where I sourced the Chlorine from...
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/hints.htm#NO3
The article is as follows....

Dump Muriate of Potash:

Muriate contains 50% microbe-killing chlorine. Sulfate of Potash may be more
expensive, but most Queensland soils are sulfur deficient, and this benefit
should be factored into the cost difference. It is always difficult to
quantify microbe damage, because the organisms are not visible, but there is
ample, visible evidence when we consider earthworms: NTS have collected
several reports of reduced earthworm numbers following prolonged use of
Muriate. Leading American consultants cite cases where this phenomenon is
reversed. Earthworms tend to return following a switch from muriate of
Potash to Sulfate of potash.

Just though I would mention it as chlorine is not that good in aquaria, but
maybe it's different here in Australia...

Thanks justin.


"Rocco Moretti" wrote in message
...
Justin wrote:
Thanks for the responses!

Whereas if I do use Muriate of potash, it's about AU$6.00 for approx
2kg which should last a couple of years, I'm just worried about the
chlorine in it...

As mentioned elsewhere, it's chloriDe not chloriNe - it's about as inert
an ion as one can get - "Mutiate of potash" is Potassium chloride, the
potassium equivalent of table salt.

The only concern is eventual accumulation of chloride salts in the tank,
but you'll be dosing at so low a level that it shouldn't be a concern if
you have any sort of water change regime at all.

Also, sourcing KH2PO4 and KNO3 is proving difficult in australia...

Don't know about the phosphate, but the KNO3 is also sometimes sold as
stump remover. Don't know about the legality of it in Oz - it might
potentially be regulated as bomb making material.

I went to a chemist last night and got excited when the had the Fleet
product, but it was lemon ginger flavour... Don't think the fish would
like that too much... Will keep on looking...

Hmm ... I'm only familar with Fleet Enema - I'm unsure why one would want
lemon ginger flavouring in an enema.

Justin wrote:
Rocco,

Here is where I sourced the Chlorine from...
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/hints.htm#NO3
The article is as follows....

Dump Muriate of Potash:

Muriate contains 50% microbe-killing chlorine. Sulfate of Potash may be
more expensive, but most Queensland soils are sulfur deficient, and this
benefit should be factored into the cost difference.

I wouldn't put much weight into what "Nutri-Tech" says (especially after
reading about the other products they have for sale)- it likely arises
from a fundamental misunderstanding of chemistry.

We label atoms based on what's going on in the nucleus (# of protons) -
but the nucleus is always surrounded by electrons. Unless you're a
nuclear physicist, it's primarily the number & layout of electrons which
determine how a given substance acts. Chlorine has 17 electrons, and due
to the way the electrons are arranged, it *really* wants one more, so it
will grab electrons from practically anything it can. Chloride (from
"muriate of potash") has 18 electrons - it's happy. In fact, since
reactivity is governed by electrons and not the nucleus, it's more like
the tremendously inert Argon than it is like chlorine.

Chloride (as opposed to chlorine) is also not particularly microbe
killing. In fact, biologists *routinely* add chloride (as NaCl -
"muriate of sodium") to bacteria cultures in quite high amounts (10g/L)
- far from being inhibitory, the NaCl is required for good growth.

That said, sulfur is also necessary for life, so adding K2SO4 adds two
nutrients instead of just the one. A big plus if your soil/tank is
sulfur poor.

Just though I would mention it as chlorine is not that good in aquaria,
but maybe it's different here in Australia...

I don't think chemistry changes that radically as one crosses the
equator.

sorry

"Rocco Moretti" wrote in message
...
Justin wrote:
Rocco,

Here is where I sourced the Chlorine from...
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/hints.htm#NO3
The article is as follows....

Dump Muriate of Potash:

Muriate contains 50% microbe-killing chlorine. Sulfate of Potash may be
more expensive, but most Queensland soils are sulfur deficient, and this
benefit should be factored into the cost difference.

I wouldn't put much weight into what "Nutri-Tech" says (especially after
reading about the other products they have for sale)- it likely arises
from a fundamental misunderstanding of chemistry.

We label atoms based on what's going on in the nucleus (# of protons) -
but the nucleus is always surrounded by electrons. Unless you're a nuclear
physicist, it's primarily the number & layout of electrons which determine
how a given substance acts. Chlorine has 17 electrons, and due to the way
the electrons are arranged, it *really* wants one more, so it will grab
electrons from practically anything it can. Chloride (from "muriate of
potash") has 18 electrons - it's happy. In fact, since reactivity is
governed by electrons and not the nucleus, it's more like the tremendously
inert Argon than it is like chlorine.

Chloride (as opposed to chlorine) is also not particularly microbe
killing. In fact, biologists *routinely* add chloride (as NaCl - "muriate
of sodium") to bacteria cultures in quite high amounts (10g/L) - far from
being inhibitory, the NaCl is required for good growth.

That said, sulfur is also necessary for life, so adding K2SO4 adds two
nutrients instead of just the one. A big plus if your soil/tank is sulfur
poor.

Just though I would mention it as chlorine is not that good in aquaria,
but maybe it's different here in Australia...

I don't think chemistry changes that radically as one crosses the equator.

"Rocco Moretti" wrote

Justin wrote:

Rocco,

Here is where I sourced the Chlorine from...
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/hints.htm#NO3

I wouldn't put much weight into what "Nutri-Tech" says (especially
after reading about the other products they have for sale)- it likely
arises from a fundamental misunderstanding of chemistry.

Justin wrote:
sorry

Don't be sorry. Chemical literacy and precision are exceptions rather
than the rule now-a-days. It's all to easy to hear something that's
not-quite-right from someone, and think that they know what they're
talking about. That's why you get horrible advice from the LFSs - it's
people repeating stuff they heard from someone who seemed like a
knowledgeable authority at the time. Usenet suffers from the same
problem. (I've done my fair share of disseminating B.S.) The only
difference is that there is enough people reading Usenet that people get
corrected on misinformation rather effectively.

We're all here to learn. (You can take that in a more general
metaphysical sense as well, if you want to.)

Thanks for that Rocco. :-)

One more question then if i could... You say that Muriate of Potash is safe
which I may buy as it comes in 2kg bags as opposed to 25kg bags... What
about Sulfate of Potash, would that be better as it's formula is K2SO4,
which is exactly as it should be... Is that right?

Thanks.

Justin
"Rocco Moretti" wrote in message
...
"Rocco Moretti" wrote
Justin wrote:

Rocco,

Here is where I sourced the Chlorine from...
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/hints.htm#NO3

I wouldn't put much weight into what "Nutri-Tech" says (especially after
reading about the other products they have for sale)- it likely arises
from a fundamental misunderstanding of chemistry.

Justin wrote:
sorry

Don't be sorry. Chemical literacy and precision are exceptions rather than
the rule now-a-days. It's all to easy to hear something that's
not-quite-right from someone, and think that they know what they're
talking about. That's why you get horrible advice from the LFSs - it's
people repeating stuff they heard from someone who seemed like a
knowledgeable authority at the time. Usenet suffers from the same problem.
(I've done my fair share of disseminating B.S.) The only difference is
that there is enough people reading Usenet that people get corrected on
misinformation rather effectively.

We're all here to learn. (You can take that in a more general metaphysical
sense as well, if you want to.)

Justin wrote:
Thanks for that Rocco. :-)

One more question then if i could... You say that Muriate of Potash is
safe which I may buy as it comes in 2kg bags as opposed to 25kg bags...
What about Sulfate of Potash, would that be better as it's formula is
K2SO4, which is exactly as it should be... Is that right?

Muriate of Potash = KCl
Sulfate of Potash = K2SO4

Muriatic Acid = HCl
Sulfuric Acid = H2SO4
Potash = K2CO3
Acid + Carbonate = Salt + CO2

Either works to add K to your tank. The sulfate will also add sulfur
too, which may be a benefit.

Rocco Moretti wrote:
Justin wrote:

Thanks for that Rocco. :-)

One more question then if i could... You say that Muriate of Potash
is safe which I may buy as it comes in 2kg bags as opposed to 25kg
bags... What about Sulfate of Potash, would that be better as it's
formula is K2SO4, which is exactly as it should be... Is that right?


Muriate of Potash = KCl
Sulfate of Potash = K2SO4

Muriatic Acid = HCl
Sulfuric Acid = H2SO4
Potash = K2CO3
Acid + Carbonate = Salt + CO2

Either works to add K to your tank. The sulfate will also add sulfur
too, which may be a benefit.

Hi,
Is potassium nitrate still used? I thought it was an ingredient in "poor
man's daily dosing drops".
Steve