Our Clown Loaches might have Ich

We have two Clown loaches in a small community tank. We purchased them
about two weeks ago, and they have only rarely stopped moving since. I
noticed one of them brushing himself against a tank ornament just now,
and then against the gravel. So I moved in for a closer look. They
only rarely stop moving, but I was able to detect a few pimple like
spots on both of them.

In my previous aquarium keeping experience, years ago I admit, I only
found Ich if the temperature of the tank had dropped dramatically.
That is most certainly not the case in this tank in the heat of summer.
I think I've seen people cite Ich as the result of other stress
conditions. I did note that one of the loaches slowed down quite a
bit yesterday, and remained near motionless in a corner of the tank for
sometime. When I turned the tank light off, the sedintary loach
started "dancing" with his tank mate again. I took this as a sign that
I had been leaving the light on too long, and motivated me to plan a
trip to the LFS today to buy something(rock like) for the loaches to
shelter themselves under.

Is it possible that the lack of shady shelter, there are some live and
artificial plants in the tank, could cause the Ich inducing stress?

In any case, I have a small 8-10 gallon tank with a couple of little
angel fish and a Chinese Algae eater. I'm thinking of moving the Angel
Fish, and dropping the loaches in the little tank with the Algae eater
for a sort of hospital tank. Back in the day I successfully treated a
silver dollar with Ich with some kind of Blue drops. I'm guessing that
there is something similar, or the same, available today.

Any help is appreciated.

Glengoyne wrote:
Any help is appreciated.

Maracide is the best treatment for ich. Beware other medications, as
loaches are scaleless fish and do not do well on full-strenght of other
meds.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

Well I searched around this group, and found several different options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday, and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.

"Glengoyne" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well I searched around this group, and found several different options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday, and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.

Glengoyne wrote:
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to

I would look for another LFS where people actually know what they're
talking about.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

"Glengoyne" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well I searched around this group, and found several different options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday, and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


While I sympathize with your predicament, it's logistically impossible
for a retail outlet to provide a level of health which would preclude
doing some type of quarantine.

For information on loaches, I like loaches.com, but their disease
treatment section is completely anecdotal
http://www.loaches.com/copper.html

I'd normally favour Maracide over *any* copper based treatment, but
results and opinions vary. Interesting bit on Maracide's new formulation
http://www.loaches.com/maracide.html though I don't know if I'd agree
with the conclusion. Copper's toxicity to fish does not need to be
proven, so it's a case of whether the applied dosage is strong enough to
kill the parasites and not the fish.

Ordinarily, one of my best reference sites is
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ but I don't know if they have moved?
--
www.NetMax.tk

Glengoyne wrote:
Well I searched around this group, and found several different options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday, and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor in all fish stores. It's important to
look at all the tanks sharing a common filtration system in a fish store
before making your purchase. Better stores run their water through UV
before it is distributed to individual tanks, lowering your risk
considerably, but not all do this.

The places where I buy fish are happy to tell me which tanks are on
which systems and whether tanks with sick fish are off-system. If in
doubt, I rarely buy.

As for treating clown loaches, copper safe is supposed to be good if
your water is hard. Copper is more toxic in soft water. Another good
option is any medicine with pure formalin and no malachite green.
Personally, I use Quick Cure at 1/2 strength on clown and yoyo loaches
but am reluctant to recommmend it because other people in this NG have
had problems using malachite green on loaches.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

"Elaine T" wrote in message
...
Glengoyne wrote:
Well I searched around this group, and found several different
options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper
safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday,
and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor in all fish stores. It's important
to look at all the tanks sharing a common filtration system in a fish
store before making your purchase. Better stores run their water
through UV before it is distributed to individual tanks, lowering your
risk considerably, but not all do this.

The places where I buy fish are happy to tell me which tanks are on
which systems and whether tanks with sick fish are off-system. If in
doubt, I rarely buy.

As for treating clown loaches, copper safe is supposed to be good if
your water is hard. Copper is more toxic in soft water. Another good
option is any medicine with pure formalin and no malachite green.
Personally, I use Quick Cure at 1/2 strength on clown and yoyo loaches
but am reluctant to recommmend it because other people in this NG have
had problems using malachite green on loaches.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were adequate.
Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get it in a 1
gallon jug).

copper & alkalinity, interesting, thanks

pure formalin, I've bought formaldehyde (formalin might be a trade
name). It's available from your local drug store on special order (but
they will ask what you are buying it for ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

NetMax wrote:
Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were adequate.
Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get it in a 1
gallon jug).

But you're in Canada, right? That means you can still (maybe?) get the
old-formula maracide. That's the best cure I've found.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
...

Glengoyne wrote:

Well I searched around this group, and found several different
options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper
safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday,
and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor in all fish stores. It's important
to look at all the tanks sharing a common filtration system in a fish
store before making your purchase. Better stores run their water
through UV before it is distributed to individual tanks, lowering your
risk considerably, but not all do this.

The places where I buy fish are happy to tell me which tanks are on
which systems and whether tanks with sick fish are off-system. If in
doubt, I rarely buy.

As for treating clown loaches, copper safe is supposed to be good if
your water is hard. Copper is more toxic in soft water. Another good
option is any medicine with pure formalin and no malachite green.
Personally, I use Quick Cure at 1/2 strength on clown and yoyo loaches
but am reluctant to recommmend it because other people in this NG have
had problems using malachite green on loaches.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were adequate.
Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get it in a 1
gallon jug).

copper & alkalinity, interesting, thanks

pure formalin, I've bought formaldehyde (formalin might be a trade
name). It's available from your local drug store on special order (but
they will ask what you are buying it for ;~).

Glad to hear I'm not the only person having luck with Quick Cure on loaches.

Here's an aquaculture article with copper toxicity and alkalinity
calculations. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA008 I think it was Skeptical
Aquarist who alerted me to the variable toxicity of copper with alkalinity.

Formalin is a trade name for a solution of 37% formaldehyde in water
with a bit of methanol for stabilization. Formaldehyde itself is a
rather reactive gas with chemical formula CH20. It polymerizes
reversibly in solution so within a couple of hours, formalin solution is
not really formaldehyde dissolved in water any longer. Formalin also
oxidizes to formic acid with exposure to atmospheric oxygen, rendering
the solution less potent with time.

Come to think of it, I wonder if that's why people report such variable
results with formalin-based fish medications. Old bottles would be of
limited use. I had no luck at all this winter trying to cure ich with a
2-year old bottle of Quick Cure. Hmmm...I'm off to put my formalin in
the refrigerator - cold slows the breakdown.

BTW, Seachem makes a pure formalin fish remedy if your druggest looks at
you funny when you try to buy formalin.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com