Our Clown Loaches might have Ich

"Elaine T" wrote in message
...
Glengoyne wrote:
Well I searched around this group, and found several different
options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper
safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday,
and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor in all fish stores. It's important
to look at all the tanks sharing a common filtration system in a fish
store before making your purchase. Better stores run their water
through UV before it is distributed to individual tanks, lowering your
risk considerably, but not all do this.

The places where I buy fish are happy to tell me which tanks are on
which systems and whether tanks with sick fish are off-system. If in
doubt, I rarely buy.

As for treating clown loaches, copper safe is supposed to be good if
your water is hard. Copper is more toxic in soft water. Another good
option is any medicine with pure formalin and no malachite green.
Personally, I use Quick Cure at 1/2 strength on clown and yoyo loaches
but am reluctant to recommmend it because other people in this NG have
had problems using malachite green on loaches.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were adequate.
Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get it in a 1
gallon jug).

copper & alkalinity, interesting, thanks

pure formalin, I've bought formaldehyde (formalin might be a trade
name). It's available from your local drug store on special order (but
they will ask what you are buying it for ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

NetMax wrote:
Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were adequate.
Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get it in a 1
gallon jug).

But you're in Canada, right? That means you can still (maybe?) get the
old-formula maracide. That's the best cure I've found.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
...

Glengoyne wrote:

Well I searched around this group, and found several different
options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper
safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday,
and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor in all fish stores. It's important
to look at all the tanks sharing a common filtration system in a fish
store before making your purchase. Better stores run their water
through UV before it is distributed to individual tanks, lowering your
risk considerably, but not all do this.

The places where I buy fish are happy to tell me which tanks are on
which systems and whether tanks with sick fish are off-system. If in
doubt, I rarely buy.

As for treating clown loaches, copper safe is supposed to be good if
your water is hard. Copper is more toxic in soft water. Another good
option is any medicine with pure formalin and no malachite green.
Personally, I use Quick Cure at 1/2 strength on clown and yoyo loaches
but am reluctant to recommmend it because other people in this NG have
had problems using malachite green on loaches.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were adequate.
Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get it in a 1
gallon jug).

copper & alkalinity, interesting, thanks

pure formalin, I've bought formaldehyde (formalin might be a trade
name). It's available from your local drug store on special order (but
they will ask what you are buying it for ;~).

Glad to hear I'm not the only person having luck with Quick Cure on loaches.

Here's an aquaculture article with copper toxicity and alkalinity
calculations. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA008 I think it was Skeptical
Aquarist who alerted me to the variable toxicity of copper with alkalinity.

Formalin is a trade name for a solution of 37% formaldehyde in water
with a bit of methanol for stabilization. Formaldehyde itself is a
rather reactive gas with chemical formula CH20. It polymerizes
reversibly in solution so within a couple of hours, formalin solution is
not really formaldehyde dissolved in water any longer. Formalin also
oxidizes to formic acid with exposure to atmospheric oxygen, rendering
the solution less potent with time.

Come to think of it, I wonder if that's why people report such variable
results with formalin-based fish medications. Old bottles would be of
limited use. I had no luck at all this winter trying to cure ich with a
2-year old bottle of Quick Cure. Hmmm...I'm off to put my formalin in
the refrigerator - cold slows the breakdown.

BTW, Seachem makes a pure formalin fish remedy if your druggest looks at
you funny when you try to buy formalin.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
...

Glengoyne wrote:

Well I searched around this group, and found several different
options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper
safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday,
and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich, because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor in all fish stores. It's important
to look at all the tanks sharing a common filtration system in a fish
store before making your purchase. Better stores run their water
through UV before it is distributed to individual tanks, lowering your
risk considerably, but not all do this.

The places where I buy fish are happy to tell me which tanks are on
which systems and whether tanks with sick fish are off-system. If in
doubt, I rarely buy.

As for treating clown loaches, copper safe is supposed to be good if
your water is hard. Copper is more toxic in soft water. Another good
option is any medicine with pure formalin and no malachite green.
Personally, I use Quick Cure at 1/2 strength on clown and yoyo loaches
but am reluctant to recommmend it because other people in this NG have
had problems using malachite green on loaches.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were adequate.
Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get it in a 1
gallon jug).

copper & alkalinity, interesting, thanks

pure formalin, I've bought formaldehyde (formalin might be a trade
name). It's available from your local drug store on special order (but
they will ask what you are buying it for ;~).

Glad to hear I'm not the only person who uses Quick Cure on clowns.

Here's an aquaculture article with copper toxicity and alkalinity
calculations. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA008 I think it was Skeptical
Aquarist who alerted me to the variable toxicity of copper with alkalinity.

Formalin is a solution of 37% formaldehyde in water with a bit of
methanol for stabilization. Formaldehyde itself is a rather reactive
gas with chemical formula CH20. It polymerizes reversibly in solution
so within a couple of hours, the solution is not really formaldehyde
dissolved in water. Dissolved formaldehyde also oxidizes to formic acid
with exposure to atmospheric oxygen, rendering the solution less potent
with time.

Come to think of it, I wonder if that's why people report such variable
results with formalin-based fish medications. Old bottles would be of
limited use. I had no luck at all this winter trying to cure ich with a
2-year old bottle of Quick Cure. Hmmm...I'm off to put my formalin in
the refrigerator - cold slows the breakdown.

BTW, Seachem makes a pure formalin fish remedy if your druggest looks at
you funny when you try to buy formalin.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

"Elaine T" wrote in message
...
NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
...

Glengoyne wrote:

Well I searched around this group, and found several different
options
for treating the loaches for Ich. I ended up getting copper safe. I
used it at about half strength. I also added a bit of aquarium salt.
I'll see how that goes. I didn't look all that hard for feedback on
Maracide, but did find a good number of recomendations for copper
safe.

I also had a epiphany as to how the loaches ended up with Ich. Just
last night we added a new fish. When I went to the LFS today to
purchase meds, I checked up and down their tanks. There were
infected
fish everywhere. I went to the gal who sold me the fish yesterday,
and
told her about my Ich outbreak, and pointed out that it obviously
came
from their tank. She pretty much blew me off, saying there must have
been something else wrong with my loaches if they got the Ich,
because
"Ich are almost always present after all, and only stressed fish will
be affected". I said that as long as they were going to continue to
sell fish to people, that they should at least warn them that it was
full of parasites. I said it loud enough that the people waiting in
line to buy fish heard it. I then asked if they would at least cover
the cost of the meds I had to buy. They wouldn't.


Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor in all fish stores. It's important
to look at all the tanks sharing a common filtration system in a fish
store before making your purchase. Better stores run their water
through UV before it is distributed to individual tanks, lowering your
risk considerably, but not all do this.

The places where I buy fish are happy to tell me which tanks are on
which systems and whether tanks with sick fish are off-system. If in
doubt, I rarely buy.

As for treating clown loaches, copper safe is supposed to be good if
your water is hard. Copper is more toxic in soft water. Another good
option is any medicine with pure formalin and no malachite green.
Personally, I use Quick Cure at 1/2 strength on clown and yoyo loaches
but am reluctant to recommmend it because other people in this NG have
had problems using malachite green on loaches.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


Quick Cure on Clown loaches.. I've used this, results were
adequate. Overall, Quick Cure was my favourite in the store (I'd get
it in a 1 gallon jug).

copper & alkalinity, interesting, thanks

pure formalin, I've bought formaldehyde (formalin might be a trade
name). It's available from your local drug store on special order
(but they will ask what you are buying it for ;~).

Glad to hear I'm not the only person who uses Quick Cure on clowns.

Here's an aquaculture article with copper toxicity and alkalinity
calculations. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA008 I think it was Skeptical
Aquarist who alerted me to the variable toxicity of copper with
alkalinity.

Formalin is a solution of 37% formaldehyde in water with a bit of
methanol for stabilization. Formaldehyde itself is a rather reactive
gas with chemical formula CH20. It polymerizes reversibly in solution
so within a couple of hours, the solution is not really formaldehyde
dissolved in water. Dissolved formaldehyde also oxidizes to formic
acid with exposure to atmospheric oxygen, rendering the solution less
potent with time.

Come to think of it, I wonder if that's why people report such variable
results with formalin-based fish medications. Old bottles would be of
limited use. I had no luck at all this winter trying to cure ich with
a 2-year old bottle of Quick Cure. Hmmm...I'm off to put my formalin
in the refrigerator - cold slows the breakdown.

BTW, Seachem makes a pure formalin fish remedy if your druggest looks
at you funny when you try to buy formalin.

--
Elaine T __


Thanks for the link, bookmarked. I'm not sure what % the formaldehyde
was in, perhaps 40%. Formaldehyde is the method recommended to me for
the treatment of possible external parasites with Discus. I don't recall
the details as I haven't used it recently, but I don't recall thinking
that it was particularly effective ;~).

Maracide & Canada, that's a possibility, but my 2 year old
documentation from Mardel already shows the new formulation.
--
www.NetMax.tk

I too use (and prefer) Quick Cure.
I half dose Clown Loaches and had good results on more than one
occasion when bringing in new Clowns for quarantine.
The one time I tried RidIch (it was the proper one for sensitive fish)
and the Ich killed every single Clown before the med worked.
These Clowns had a light case of Ich and it got out of control *during*
the treatment with RidIch.
Never before have I had that happen with half dose Quick Cure.
In my time in the lovely hobby I've seen some pretty nasty diseases and
parasites come through my doors. Some would think I would have all
sorts of meds on hand. However, I have 3 things in my fishy medicine
cabinet.
Quick Cure (I always buy the tiny bottle....big bottle would go bad
unless you have a HUGE fishroom or store).
Jungle's Fungus Eliminator (works wonders with bacterial infections as
well as true fungus).
Salt. Sometimes you just need to salt those puppies down (depending on
fish type of course).
In all cases...no matter what you're dealing with...freshwater is
always a miracle worker.
Before doing anything.....the first thing I do in all cases would be to
do a water change.

Elaine T wrote:



Come to think of it, I wonder if that's why people report such variable
results with formalin-based fish medications. Old bottles would be of
limited use. I had no luck at all this winter trying to cure ich with a
2-year old bottle of Quick Cure. Hmmm...I'm off to put my formalin in
the refrigerator - cold slows the breakdown.

No, the conversion of formaldehyde (or methanal, as the systematic name
is) into paraformaldehyde (the polymere you were talking of) is
accelerated at low temperature. Formalin is best kept at room
temperature, protected from light and in an air-tight bottle (not only
to protect the formalin from air, but also to keep the formaldehyde in
the bottle, as it stinks badly, is a potent allergene and quite toxic).

Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
Elaine T wrote:



Come to think of it, I wonder if that's why people report such variable
results with formalin-based fish medications. Old bottles would be of
limited use. I had no luck at all this winter trying to cure ich with a
2-year old bottle of Quick Cure. Hmmm...I'm off to put my formalin in
the refrigerator - cold slows the breakdown.


No, the conversion of formaldehyde (or methanal, as the systematic name
is) into paraformaldehyde (the polymere you were talking of) is
accelerated at low temperature. Formalin is best kept at room
temperature, protected from light and in an air-tight bottle (not only
to protect the formalin from air, but also to keep the formaldehyde in
the bottle, as it stinks badly, is a potent allergene and quite toxic).

Thanks. That shows how inaccurate biology lab lore can become. The
(admittedly rather odd) lab where I used freshly depolymerized
paraformaldehyde kept it in cold overnight.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com