(Koi-lo) - more vortex DE filter discussion...

I'm about to do a 50% water change - and will then try a 3rd charge in the
DE filter - maybe my water is just so filthy that 2 charges wasnt enough to
get it crystal clear ? (although I would think the flow would all but stop
thru the filter rather than just miss all the super fine particles ?)


My notes; I've seen this too.

http://aquaria.net/articles/filter/diatom/
http://aquaria.net/articles/filter/vortex/



--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
I'm about to do a 50% water change - and will then try a 3rd charge in
the
DE filter - maybe my water is just so filthy that 2 charges wasnt enough
to
get it crystal clear ? (although I would think the flow would all but stop
thru the filter rather than just miss all the super fine particles ?)


My notes; I've seen this too.

http://aquaria.net/articles/filter/diatom/
http://aquaria.net/articles/filter/vortex/
========================================
It takes my D1 no longer than 2 hours to make my 55s crystal clear with no
more than 1/2 cup to 3/4s cup (I'm not real accurate about measuring it) of
DE in the jar. I wonder if the OP is making sure the whole bag has a good
coating and there's no areas where water is bypassing the DE.
This is when the water is a mess from me using the gravel vac and then
stirring the gravel by hand to get as much mulm into the water column as
possible. And believe me with goldfish the gravel is still mucky even
after a vacc'ing. While the tank is still 1/2 empty, holding only around
25g of water, I turn the D1 on. Then I slowly start to refill the tank a
bucket at a time. By the time I move on to the next tank and have it
vacuumed and 1/2 empty the 1st tank is near crystal clear.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Bottom posted.
Richard Sexton wrote:
I'm about to do a 50% water change - and will then try a 3rd charge
in the DE filter - maybe my water is just so filthy that 2 charges
wasnt enough to get it crystal clear ? (although I would think the
flow would all but stop thru the filter rather than just miss all
the super fine particles ?)


My notes; I've seen this too.

http://aquaria.net/articles/filter/diatom/
http://aquaria.net/articles/filter/vortex/

Thanks for the notes - I also found them to be educational - it will be
interesting to see if the original poster does too. Good luck and later!

"Daniel Morrow" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the notes - I also found them to be educational - it will be
interesting to see if the original poster does too. Good luck and later!


Well, I'm very glad to report that the OP has indeed finally had some
success.... :-D

My water is clear as a bell now - Thanx to a 3rd charge of DE powder...

only took about 2 - 3 hours to get it sparkling with the 3rd charge....

I'm still at a loss to explain why the 1st & 2nd charges (both filtering for
1 week each) didnt *fully* clear the water or clog the outlet flow to a
trickle... but all is well that ends well...

The 1st & 2nd charges did help ALOT, but the 3rd charge finally did the
'polishing' I was looking for.
Thanx all for ur input.

"Steve Michie" wrote in message
...

Well, I'm very glad to report that the OP has indeed finally had some
success.... :-D

My water is clear as a bell now - Thanx to a 3rd charge of DE powder...

only took about 2 - 3 hours to get it sparkling with the 3rd charge....

I'm still at a loss to explain why the 1st & 2nd charges (both filtering
for 1 week each) didnt *fully* clear the water or clog the outlet flow to
a trickle... but all is well that ends well...

I suspect the bag may not have had a complete coating of powder. The next
time you run this filter shake the bottle and make sure you SEE that the bag
is completely coated everywhere. If you just dump the power in the bottom
and then let the water run in and turn it on, it may not be coating the bag
completely. If not, the water will channel and take the path of least
resistance.

The 1st & 2nd charges did help ALOT, but the 3rd charge finally did the
'polishing' I was looking for.
Thanx all for ur input.

I'm glad you got you tank clear. ;-)
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Koi-lo" wrote in message
...

If you just dump the power in the bottom and then let the water run in
and turn it on, it may not be coating the bag completely.

A fair point - but the method I used to charge was by adding the powder to a
jug immersed in the tank (alternate method in the manual) and letting the
vortex suck in the mixture - so the coating should have been nice & even ??

Maybe this episode still belongs in the x-files... ;-)

P.S. I have removed the vortex and am hoping that my cloud algae doesnt
return anytime soon. (touch wood)

I'll post a sob story if it does - chuckle

Thanx again all.
Cheers.
Stevo

"Steve Michie" wrote in message
...

"Koi-lo" wrote in message
...

If you just dump the power in the bottom and then let the water run in
and turn it on, it may not be coating the bag completely.

A fair point - but the method I used to charge was by adding the powder to
a jug immersed in the tank (alternate method in the manual) and letting
the vortex suck in the mixture - so the coating should have been nice &
even ??

Maybe this episode still belongs in the x-files... ;-)

P.S. I have removed the vortex and am hoping that my cloud algae doesnt
return anytime soon. (touch wood)

I'll post a sob story if it does - chuckle
=======================
OK,... sounds good to me. ;-) We'll be here to help if we can........
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
Steve Michie wrote:

"Daniel Morrow" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the notes - I also found them to be educational - it will be
interesting to see if the original poster does too. Good luck and later!


Well, I'm very glad to report that the OP has indeed finally had some
success.... :-D

My water is clear as a bell now - Thanx to a 3rd charge of DE powder...

only took about 2 - 3 hours to get it sparkling with the 3rd charge....

I'm still at a loss to explain why the 1st & 2nd charges (both filtering for
1 week each) didnt *fully* clear the water or clog the outlet flow to a
trickle... but all is well that ends well...

I think what hapens when it doesn't clea the water quickly - like
under an hour and no matter what you do it won't go clear - and yes
I've left it for 24 hours and it gets no clearer - I think what happens
in this case is there is dissolved gas in the (usually new tapwater?)
that you charge the diatom with. What you add diatom powder and let it run
some of the gas comes out of solution in the filter pleats. Diatom powder
can't cover tha hole and eventually the bubble dissolves back into
solution leaving a hole in the powder coating.

I stumbled by accident on truning the filter off, letting all the
powder start to settle then turning it back on. This seems to dislodge
all the bubbles. What works too is to use aquarium, not fresh tap water
when charging the filter. it contains less dissolved gasas.

So, this does seem to help avoid the "cloudies" when no matter what you
do you seem to have a file layer of diatom powder in your tank. Keep in
mind though you should NEVER turn the filter off and on or try to charge
it in the tank itself. use a 2 gal tank or a large one gallon jar. Or
a bucket.

Getting the recharge valves helps too, but you can get by with just a
bucket. Recharging it is everything.

Once the powder it set up right it should make any tank clean in about
an hour. Leave it on for 24 hours and it's photographic quality clear.
For about half an hour... For tanks bigger than 30 gals you probbaly need
an XL. The D1 just takes too long above that size. It'll work to be sure
but how much time (or how many tanks) ya got?

The carbon these guys sell is awsome. Once the water is clear take the filter
out recharge it, then add 4 T carbon powder. Give it an hour and it will
make the water absolutely colorless taking out any yellow or green tinge.

You have to use finely powdered carbon here, not granulater carbon, but
it's easy to make. Just take any high quality (ie, coconut) carbon and
put it in a coffee grinder. Grind until it's a fine powder. Use 4T
per D1 after charging with datom powder. Now grind a couple of loeads
of beans to flush the carbon out of the grinder. The carbon actually cleans
it - that's your story and you're sticking to it. Keep excess powder in
a small tightly sealed jar.

My diatom filter is the singlemost usefull piece of fish gear I have.
Cold dead fingers etc...


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
My diatom filter is the singlemost usefull piece of fish gear I have.
Cold dead fingers etc...
============================
Amen! I couldn't live without mine. Let me add that my D1 clears a real
stirred up 55g goldfish tank in less than 2 hours.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
I think what happens
in this case is there is dissolved gas in the (usually new tapwater?)
that you charge the diatom with. What you add diatom powder and let it run
some of the gas comes out of solution in the filter pleats. Diatom powder
can't cover tha hole and eventually the bubble dissolves back into
solution leaving a hole in the powder coating.

a very possible and likely explanation - I'm happy to bust the x-file with
that !!! :-)

I stumbled by accident on truning the filter off, letting all the
powder start to settle then turning it back on. This seems to dislodge
all the bubbles. What works too is to use aquarium, not fresh tap water
when charging the filter. it contains less dissolved gasas.

yep - i have only ever charged with aquarium water - but my co2 injection
prolly causes enough gas to be dissolved into solution to give the above
effect - and now that I think of it - I just might have had my gas off for
at least a few days prior to my 3rd charge - (was getting desperate - I
thought no fertilizer & no co2 might help algae to die off) - no co2
dissolved in solution = uniform coating of DE powder on bag - your theory is
seeming more & more probable by the minute !! ;-D


So, this does seem to help avoid the "cloudies" when no matter what you
do you seem to have a file layer of diatom powder in your tank. Keep in
mind though you should NEVER turn the filter off and on or try to charge
it in the tank itself. use a one gallon jar.

???
Never turn the filter off ??
you've lost me... u said u turn it off momentarily to cure ur bubble on bag
problem - and now ur saying to never turn it off ?
huh ?

For tanks bigger than 30 gals you probbaly need
an XL. The D1 just takes too long above that size. It'll work to be sure
but how much time (or how many tanks) ya got?

I've just got a single 55 gal tank.
Cheers.