Best cannister filter....?

"MarAzul" wrote in message
news:qJWGf.16125$ZA5.7761@fed1read05...
"NetMax" wrote in message
...

I would agree that the current offerings from Rena, Fluval & Eheim are
all quite good and reliable so I don't think there's a bad choice (with
the exception of the Eco series from Eheim which I have no experience
with but have read lots of grumbles). For servicing, I much prefer the
current Fluvals over the Eheim Classic series (which is just getting a
little dated).

I'm nowhere close to being canister-savy, but I have an Eheim Ecco (my
first and so far only cannister) and I haven't had problems with it (that
I'm aware of). LOL It came recommended to me as a nice, easy cannister for
beginners.
What kind of grumbles have you heard?

--
Mar
---------
VTIT


What I heard (but have never seen) is that the Ecco stands for ECOnomy, and
its construction was not up to Eheim's standards. Grumblings about the
capacity and the quality of the components. There is more, but I'm not
comfortable commenting further, as I have had no personal experience with
this model. It might be a very good value for it's cost, and just didn't
meet elevated expectations. You should speak with someone who has both
Ecco's and other Eheims (or Renas/Fluvals etc) who might be able to make
more objective comparisons.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Disregard any info you get from people who haven't used them all. I have,
I've had them all running side by side until I decided to ebay my Filstar
and my Fluval. Jebo's are an attempted cheap imitation of an Eheim.

In answer to your question, your probably going to be happy with it for a
while, because you haven't seen or used better, yet. I was the same way
until I bought an Eheim. Shortly after that, I started asking myself, "what
the hell is this piece of crap then?" Referring to my Rena inparticular on
that one. You get spoiled. It's like upgrading from a Ford to a BMW. At
first, you think your new Ford is pretty cool. But, you don't realize how
bad you had it until you take the BMW out for a spin.

You think your Fluval is quiet, you'll **** bricks if you had an Eheim
running. Your sense of hearing can no longer be used. You have to use site
and feel to tell if an Eheim is running. This is no joke. Back to your
question, you might expect some difficulty with your Fluval, but you won't
know anything better about performance or ease of assembly until you get an
Eheim Classic or Pro II series in your hands.

Plus, if you stay in the hobby for life, you'll likely recoup that money
spent down the road. Eheim's have been known to last for over 20 years.
There are folks who claim they have original classics from the 70's or 80's
that are still running. I don't know when they came out, but that's pretty
damn good in my book.

N8


"Big Dummy" wrote in message
...
"Nate" wrote in message ...
You get what you pay for. You go cheap, you get cheap. Sorry for the
bluntness. Eheim's smoke those fluval's in every category. Except of
course, price.

N8

There seemed to be some ambiguity in the group, many people said most of
the
cannister filters now on the market are pretty good. The price difference
was $50 something vs. $150...

Do you think I should expect trouble with this filter or just somewhat
less
performance and / or ease of assembly?

DB

"Nate" wrote in message ...
Disregard any info you get from people who haven't used them all. I have,
I've had them all running side by side

Good advice there. I have an Eheim Classic 2213 and a Fluval 304 running
side by side (about 14 feet away from each other in the same room). I once
tried to determine which is quieter, and basically they are different, but
both very quiet. The Fluval makes more of a breathing noise (like a never
ending exhale) which travels through the air. The Eheim has more of a
vibrational hum which travels through the base it's sitting on (perhaps
their feet are of a harder rubber). Neither of them sitting inside a
cabinet makes a significant sound level. If I was going to put one or the
other in my room, I would pick the Eheim. The noise it makes is a slightly
deeper hum (somewhat easier for my brain to relegate to white noise), and
the fact that it's a vibrational hum means that it would be easier to slip a
blanket underneath to quieten it further (the Fluval noise comes from the
pump area).

They are both much noisier when their impellers start failing, and both have
seen 2 replacement impellers.

I purposely have them arranged so that the Fluval does more work and gets
serviced more frequently. The Eheim is slightly more effort to service, but
unless you have them side by side, it's really not a big deal. For the
record, the shut-off valves, the sponge media and the basket media are all
easier to manage on the Fluval as compared to the Eheim's in-line shut-off
valves, spring-clip pump housing, twist media cartridge with all the media
sandwiched on top of each.

I find that all these filters (including HOBs), as you switch from
manufacturer to manufacturer, they have their 'characteristics'. If I was
to design the ultimate filter, it would have parts from many different
manufacturers.

Specifically to the 204 you bought (I'm also currently running a Fluval 201,
a seriously crappy antique which will just not die, and is a very distant
relative of your 204), the 104 and 204 series use a much smaller diameter
hose than the 304 and 404. They might be ok for smaller tanks, but I don't
have any small tanks. At the store, I think I ran a small hex tank on a 204
(it was all I could fit it between the narrow cabinet door) and it worked
ok. I think we had to service it more than we would have liked, but it was
a planted tank, so ymmv.
--
www.NetMax.tk

until I decided to ebay my Filstar and my Fluval. Jebo's are an attempted
cheap imitation of an Eheim.

In answer to your question, your probably going to be happy with it for a
while, because you haven't seen or used better, yet. I was the same way
until I bought an Eheim. Shortly after that, I started asking myself,
"what the hell is this piece of crap then?" Referring to my Rena
inparticular on that one. You get spoiled. It's like upgrading from a
Ford to a BMW. At first, you think your new Ford is pretty cool. But,
you don't realize how bad you had it until you take the BMW out for a
spin.

You think your Fluval is quiet, you'll **** bricks if you had an Eheim
running. Your sense of hearing can no longer be used. You have to use
site and feel to tell if an Eheim is running. This is no joke. Back to
your question, you might expect some difficulty with your Fluval, but you
won't know anything better about performance or ease of assembly until you
get an Eheim Classic or Pro II series in your hands.

Plus, if you stay in the hobby for life, you'll likely recoup that money
spent down the road. Eheim's have been known to last for over 20 years.
There are folks who claim they have original classics from the 70's or
80's that are still running. I don't know when they came out, but that's
pretty damn good in my book.

N8


"Big Dummy" wrote in message
...
"Nate" wrote in message ...
You get what you pay for. You go cheap, you get cheap. Sorry for the
bluntness. Eheim's smoke those fluval's in every category. Except of
course, price.

N8

There seemed to be some ambiguity in the group, many people said most of
the
cannister filters now on the market are pretty good. The price
difference
was $50 something vs. $150...

Do you think I should expect trouble with this filter or just somewhat
less
performance and / or ease of assembly?

DB

Big Dummy wrote:

"Nate" wrote in message
...
You get what you pay for. You go cheap, you get cheap. Sorry for
the bluntness. Eheim's smoke those fluval's in every category.
Except of course, price.

N8

There seemed to be some ambiguity in the group, many people said most
of the cannister filters now on the market are pretty good. The
price difference was $50 something vs. $150...

Do you think I should expect trouble with this filter or just
somewhat less performance and / or ease of assembly?

DB


I have to agree that the hose management is not great on the Fluval,
but now that you are past that point the worst is behind you. The 204
is a fine size for a 30G tank. Although an Eheim might be quieter, it
won't matter if you can't hear either one. And $50 is a very good price
for a Fluval 204.

If it is any consolation, the Eheim pumps don't come with that great a
hose kit either. Eheim does make some very good, optional kits for
inlet and return but they are expensive. You can use them with any
canister, and you can also use plain hose with your Fluval. The Fluval
hose is more flexible, an advantage in many installations.

--

George Pontis wrote:
Big Dummy wrote:


"Nate" wrote in message
...

You get what you pay for. You go cheap, you get cheap. Sorry for
the bluntness. Eheim's smoke those fluval's in every category.
Except of course, price.

N8

There seemed to be some ambiguity in the group, many people said most
of the cannister filters now on the market are pretty good. The
price difference was $50 something vs. $150...

Do you think I should expect trouble with this filter or just
somewhat less performance and / or ease of assembly?

DB



I have to agree that the hose management is not great on the Fluval,
but now that you are past that point the worst is behind you. The 204
is a fine size for a 30G tank. Although an Eheim might be quieter, it
won't matter if you can't hear either one. And $50 is a very good price
for a Fluval 204.

If it is any consolation, the Eheim pumps don't come with that great a
hose kit either. Eheim does make some very good, optional kits for
inlet and return but they are expensive. You can use them with any
canister, and you can also use plain hose with your Fluval. The Fluval
hose is more flexible, an advantage in many installations.


I'm running a 204 with no issues on a 30UK gall tank...a 304 on a
47.5gall tank supplemented by a Fluval 4 plus with no issues...a 404 on
a 47.5gall tank supplemented by a Fluval 4 Plus on a 47.5 gall tank with
no issues...and I've just bought a FX5 for new tank I've set up but
haven't tried it yet....I also run the Fluval 2 Plus and 1 Plus on
smaller tanks...

I have had problems with a 304 failing once but it got replaced FOC -
I've also had issues with the smaller Rena filters....

Very much YMMV and JME....but I so no need right now to spend the extra
£100 on a Eheim...

Gill

Anyone here have any suggestions or experiences with the Penn-Plax line of
canister filters, ie Cascade 1000 series?
Saw one at a local pet store but the store clerk didn't seem too
knowledgeable about them.


"Big Dummy" wrote in message
. com...
Eheim, Fluval, or some other brand? Which model?
I've used power filters for two decades and primarily because my
girlfriend
hates the sound of running water am finally switching to a cannister
filter.
Problem is, while for example I know Aquaclear are the most reliable
lowest
maintenance power filters made, and biowheels often fail to turn after a
while, I know nothing of Cannister filters, I'm like a veritable babe in
the
woods.

Which are most reliable? Are there problems with leaks and the like?
Which
type requires the most frequent maintenance. I like a hands-off aquarium.
Which types end up costing you the most with filter media etc.? Which
type
are the least likely to break down? Which retain their flow best?

Jr

On 2006-02-08 05:27:20 -0500, "Big Dummy" said:

Eheim, Fluval, or some other brand? Which model?
I've used power filters for two decades and primarily because my girlfriend
hates the sound of running water am finally switching to a cannister filter.
Problem is, while for example I know Aquaclear are the most reliable lowest
maintenance power filters made, and biowheels often fail to turn after a
while, I know nothing of Cannister filters, I'm like a veritable babe in the
woods.

Which are most reliable? Are there problems with leaks and the like? Which
type requires the most frequent maintenance. I like a hands-off aquarium.
Which types end up costing you the most with filter media etc.? Which type
are the least likely to break down? Which retain their flow best?

Jr

Never too late for another $0.02, right? (Long!!)

I've been a big fan of Marineland's pumps and canisters (particularly
the 350 Deluxe kit) since 1991 or so.

Pumps
---------
I have a number (~10) of their 550 and 660 powerheads, including a few
of their reverse-flow kits for the 660's. (Makes UGF a viable filter.)
All "tops". In those I had 4 of the 550's (my oldest pumps) stop
working after a few years. One call to Marineland and 4 replacement
impeller assemblies were on their way, no charge. (YMMV) I also have
a Bio-Wheel 30 that's driven by one 660-series.

(BTW, that's my entire experience with broken Marineland products and
their support. Not bad!)

Canisters
--------------
I also have 2 Magnum 350's (both from deluxe kits) that have served
extensive duty since the mid-90's and are still humming. They offer
great flexibility that no other canister can brag. You have micron
filtering as well as a media container that you can load with just
about anything you'd want to.

Over time, I've run them both with the micron filtering cartridges (no
diatom. earth) for extended periods. These filters recycle VERY well
with a good rinse and soak in a mild bleach solution. I replaced both
micron filters once.

I've also run them both for extended periods with the media chamber
packed full of cheap filter floss. This was my setup for my 75gal
Oscar tank when both Magnum 350's were on one tank.

Flow-rate is so good from the 350's that I've also used them just as
circulation pumps, using no filter media at all. Granted, any canister
can be run empty for circulation, but most do not have as strong a pump
as this. FWIW.

Noise was never an issue. If I stuck my head inside my cabinet I could
clearly hear a hum from the motor. Outside the cabinet it was barely
audible in an otherwise silent room. A light sleeper with this next
to the bed might not be so pleased, but I doubt his experience would be
different, in that case, with any other canister.

The setup for a Magnum 350 sounds similar to what you experienced with
the Fluval. It's a little complicated if it's your first canister. My
first time I wound up with the mal-sized hoses just like you, in fact.
;-) However, the double quick-disconnects that come with the Deluxe
kit work very well once installed.

The only parts that ever wore out on me are the foam rubber rings that
seal the filter module in place (replaced once, $5) and the pleated
micron filter cartridges (also replaced once, but used less
later....the media chamber is much handier and cheaper to keep running).

Magnum's are the only consumer level (i.e. Marineland, Eheim, et al.)
canister that are CLEAR plastic -- you can SEE INSIDE. Obviously this
is a better way to tell what's going on inside than guessing or
disassembling the filter.

Bio-wheel
-------------
At least for most freshwater tanks, I'd recommend a bio-wheel or set
of Bio-wheels. Great tech. No better/simpler/cheaper way to get the
effectiveness of wet/dry bio-filtering. Never had a problem with
mine...give it an occasional rinse in old water-change water and it
just keeps turning. (No filter is maintenance free, btw.)

For smaller tanks, or if you can't tolerate a little water drippage
from servicing the Magnum 350, I'd heartily recommend the "H.O.T."
Magnum 250. Again, go with the Pro kit if at all possible. Advantages
here are that there's no messing with hoses during setup -- it's a
canister that sets up like a power filter.

Conclusion
---------------
If money is less of an object, feel free to shop around and try the
other brands. Eheim especially seems to have a great reputation (and
the best variety of accessories). For my money though, I could never
justify the 150%-450% price difference to step "up" to one. Everything
from the canister to the accessories to the replacement filter media
are priced this way.

Lastly, as others have said, it's unlikely these days that you're going
to get a BAD canister filter...probably varying degrees of "good" ($250
bare classic Eheim) and "bang for your buck" ($99 loaded Magnum 350
kit). If you shop around, read and buy according to your needs and
your pocketbook, you should be safe.

Resources
--------------
Good info on all these links...I checked!

Old article I wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...8f2fe5e53458b0

Google

for Magnums:
http://www.google.com/search?q=magnum+350+canister

Google for Eheims:
http://www.google.com/search?q=eheim+canister

Canister run-down:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/fil...canistsers.htm - (the
reviews are not sal****er-oriented at all)

Vendors:
http://www.marineland.com/products/prod_consumer.asp
http://www.eheim.com/index2.htm

Tony R wrote:
Anyone here have any suggestions or experiences with the Penn-Plax line of
canister filters, ie Cascade 1000 series?
Saw one at a local pet store but the store clerk didn't seem too
knowledgeable about them.


"Big Dummy" wrote in message
. com...
Eheim, Fluval, or some other brand? Which model?
I've used power filters for two decades and primarily because my
girlfriend
hates the sound of running water am finally switching to a cannister
filter.
Problem is, while for example I know Aquaclear are the most reliable
lowest
maintenance power filters made, and biowheels often fail to turn after a
while, I know nothing of Cannister filters, I'm like a veritable babe in
the
woods.

Which are most reliable? Are there problems with leaks and the like?
Which
type requires the most frequent maintenance. I like a hands-off aquarium.
Which types end up costing you the most with filter media etc.? Which
type
are the least likely to break down? Which retain their flow best?

Jr




I have used Eheims for many years with no problems. They are quiet and
reliable, and parts are available and user installable.

My best is Aquaria, Inc., which makes Magnum canisters. They are actual quiet, able and dependable. I've acclimated the H.O.T. 250 with the accessible bio-wheel adapter and accept never had any problems since I started with them about 1995 or1996.

Thank you for sharing