Feeding...

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:

"jazz" wrote in message
groups.com...
I'm glad it's not just me that finds this difficult. So is it just
water changes if I overfeed? My son said they would pop if they ate
too much - he's only 5(!) and I said that I didn't think they would but
it worried me slightly.
=======================
I feed them until they all have nicely rounded bellies. Not that they
look
like balloons, but until they look a bit rounded. I feed twice a day,
sometimes 3 times - all they can consume per time. Nothing is wasted.

Yet oddly you have algae anf high nitrates. Hmmmm....

Uneaten food causes cloudy water. So does lots of fish wastes.
=========================
What high Nitrates? We *don't know* what the Nitrates in my tanks really
are because the Quick-Sticks are worthless. I get 20ppm from the tap and
the water co gets .34ppm (that's POINT .34ppm) when it leaves the water
plant a few miles away.

There is no uneaten food. I know how much they'll eat at a feeding. As for
feces.... well what's the alternative?
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

What high Nitrates? We *don't know* what the Nitrates in my tanks really
are because the Quick-Sticks are worthless. I get 20ppm from the tap and
the water co gets .34ppm (that's POINT .34ppm) when it leaves the water
plant a few miles away.

If you had pure water you wouldn't ave algae. You have ammonia, nitrites and
nitrates.

There is no uneaten food. I know how much they'll eat at a feeding. As for
feces.... well what's the alternative?

Feed way less. Do you really think fish in the wild have full belles 3x a day?

Most wild caught fish look rather emaciated.

Think of aliens keeping humans as pets. "Well, they were kinda thin when
I got them so I fed them till they were visibly distended several times
a day. Can anybody tell me why it's hard to keep their cage clean?"

The danger of overfeeding is not just uneaten food. Plus what's i the
food? Soy? Do you really thin fish eat soy four in the while or have
evolved to be able to digest it?

I feed whitewormd exclusively, and very sparingly. Ansk anybody and they'll
tell you this makes fish fat. Oddly though, I've been doing this for 7 years
not and my fish look more like the slender ones in wild caught photos. I believe
white worms in the presence of soy flour makes fish fat.

If it were me I'd feed them once a day every other day. It only sounds cruel
until you realise the fish are more active and the tank is cleaner. And the
algae problem diminishes.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Richard Sexton wrote:
I think all dried food is worthless. Get a whiteworm clture, food is
then free and has a much lessor chance of fouling yout tank.


I was warned off live food becuase it can introduce disease to the tank
and then I read that frozen food can still carry parasites, so I went
for freeze dried in the end. Would my own whiteworm culture be free of
parasites and diseases? If so I'm going to look into getting some.

Thank-you JAZZ

In article .com,
jazz wrote:

Richard Sexton wrote:
I think all dried food is worthless. Get a whiteworm clture, food is
then free and has a much lessor chance of fouling yout tank.


I was warned off live food becuase it can introduce disease to the tank
and then I read that frozen food can still carry parasites, so I went
for freeze dried in the end. Would my own whiteworm culture be free of
parasites and diseases? If so I'm going to look into getting some.

Uh, soebody lied to you. Now, if you collect food from the wild and theree
are fish where you are colletinf then yes, there's a risk. That's why
we talk about "clean" ponds - no fish, no oil slicks etc.

But, you have to understand that pathogens are extremely host specific. You
really can't (modulo some rare and extreme fringe coditions) infect a fish
with something not already living on fish.

And there's absolutely noting in a daphnia, moina or worm culture than can infect
a fish. True the culture may become infected - grindal worms are notorious for picking
up gnat infestations, but they are just tiny harmless flies and cannot infect fish.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
What high Nitrates? We *don't know* what the Nitrates in my tanks really
are because the Quick-Sticks are worthless. I get 20ppm from the tap and
the water co gets .34ppm (that's POINT .34ppm) when it leaves the water
plant a few miles away.

If you had pure water you wouldn't ave algae. You have ammonia, nitrites
and
nitrates.

Ammonia and Nitrites read zero (wet test, not strips).

There is no uneaten food. I know how much they'll eat at a feeding. As
for
feces.... well what's the alternative?

Feed way less. Do you really think fish in the wild have full belles 3x a
day?

Actually, I don't know. The sunfish, bass and catfish they catch down at
the Lake here are well fleshed. In summer they're actually quite heavy.

Most wild caught fish look rather emaciated.

Ok, I never saw any that looked emaciated in the lakes or rivers here in TN
(USA).

Think of aliens keeping humans as pets. "Well, they were kinda thin when
I got them so I fed them till they were visibly distended several times
a day. Can anybody tell me why it's hard to keep their cage clean?"

The danger of overfeeding is not just uneaten food. Plus what's i the
food? Soy? Do you really thin fish eat soy four in the while or have
evolved to be able to digest it?

There are all kinds of things in the foods I use. Fish meal is listed
first. The shrimp snack they sometimes get is 100% dried shrimp.

I feed whitewormd exclusively, and very sparingly. Ansk anybody and
they'll
tell you this makes fish fat. Oddly though, I've been doing this for 7
years
not and my fish look more like the slender ones in wild caught photos. I
believe
white worms in the presence of soy flour makes fish fat.

I have no access to white worms and can't afford to feed this many fish live
foods, even if I could find a place that sells them locally. They used to
carry clean tubafex worms and brine shrimp but no more. They all went over
to frozen foods.

If it were me I'd feed them once a day every other day. It only sounds
cruel
until you realise the fish are more active and the tank is cleaner. And
the
algae problem diminishes.

I'll cut back to once a day and see if that helps. If not then I'll start
to skip days. The problem with keeping goldfish hungry is they start to
destroy the plants. I've had that problem in the past as well (when I was
working full-time and feeding only once a day).

The Flourish Excel arrived today and I added it about an hour ago. Both of
the 55g tanks had massive water changes yesterday and the day before. The
new AC filter also arrived. The black-crud tank will have 2 ACs now. That
may help as well.

I appreciate all the info.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Ammonia and Nitrites read zero (wet test, not strips).

Unless it was a La Motte kit I woldn't pay much attention to them.

Actually, I don't know. The sunfish, bass and catfish they catch down at
the Lake here are well fleshed. In summer they're actually quite heavy.

With eggs. Now, lok at fish caught in the Orinoco year round.

There are all kinds of things in the foods I use. Fish meal is listed
first. The shrimp snack they sometimes get is 100% dried shrimp.

The problem with fish meal is it's not what fish eat. They eat worms
and crustaceans. Pure fish flesh is not what they eat, they eat whole fish;
ones, scales, stuff in the gut.

I have no access to white worms and can't afford to feed this many fish live
foods, even if I could find a place that sells them locally. They used to
carry clean tubafex worms and brine shrimp but no more. They all went over
to frozen foods.

You can dulture worms and daphnica very very easily. And you can't beat
the price.

I'll cut back to once a day and see if that helps. If not then I'll start
to skip days. The problem with keeping goldfish hungry is they start to
destroy the plants.

Let them! With proper fertilization and light you should be able to outgrow
their intake. if not add more plants. I have a few tanks I don't bother
feeding at all because the fish eat the plants or eatbugs that grow in the
tanks.

The Flourish Excel arrived today and I added it about an hour ago. Both of
the 55g tanks had massive water changes yesterday and the day before. The
new AC filter also arrived. The black-crud tank will have 2 ACs now. That
may help as well.

How massive?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
Ammonia and Nitrites read zero (wet test, not strips).

Unless it was a La Motte kit I woldn't pay much attention to them.

Actually, I don't know. The sunfish, bass and catfish they catch down at
the Lake here are well fleshed. In summer they're actually quite heavy.

With eggs. Now, lok at fish caught in the Orinoco year round.

There are all kinds of things in the foods I use. Fish meal is listed
first. The shrimp snack they sometimes get is 100% dried shrimp.

The problem with fish meal is it's not what fish eat. They eat worms
and crustaceans. Pure fish flesh is not what they eat, they eat whole
fish;
ones, scales, stuff in the gut.

I have no access to white worms and can't afford to feed this many fish
live
foods, even if I could find a place that sells them locally. They used to
carry clean tubafex worms and brine shrimp but no more. They all went
over
to frozen foods.

You can dulture worms and daphnica very very easily. And you can't beat
the price.

I have no room to culture what I would need for this many fancy goldfish and
the platys. I tried daphnia. I would need a small lake to raise enough to
use for fish food and they only multiplied in the spring - a period of about
a month, maybe 6 weeks. Larger GF don't even see daphnia. They ignore
them. Culture what kind of worms? I have a huge compost pile for the
garden and still can't harvest enough for more than an occasional snack for
them and that's only in the spring and fall.

I'll cut back to once a day and see if that helps. If not then I'll start
to skip days. The problem with keeping goldfish hungry is they start to
destroy the plants.

Let them! With proper fertilization and light you should be able to
outgrow
their intake. if not add more plants.

What kind of plants would outgrow constant daily destruction? Plants here
are not cheap! And if they eat what they tear up I'm back with the feces
problem. They get zucchini and oranges a few times a week and devour them.
So far they haven't done much harm to the plants.

I have a few tanks I don't bother
feeding at all because the fish eat the plants or eatbugs that grow in the
tanks.

My aquariums are all indoors. There are no insects or bugs to multiply in
these indoor tanks. Outdoors is different. I can't afford to keep
replacing aquarium plants as they destroy them. Even a small bunch of
anacharis here is $2.99+. I can't grow my own during the winter because it
gets too cold here.

The Flourish Excel arrived today and I added it about an hour ago. Both
of
the 55g tanks had massive water changes yesterday and the day before. The
new AC filter also arrived. The black-crud tank will have 2 ACs now.
That
may help as well.

How massive?

All I left in the bottom was enough water to cover their backs. About a 92
to 94% water change. I also vacuumed every inch of the gravel *again* and
ran the DE filter for a few hours.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o







-------------
Get FREE newsgroup access from http://www.cheap56k.com

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
I have no room to culture what I would need for this many fancy goldfish and
the platys. I tried daphnia. I would need a small lake to raise enough to
use for fish food and they only multiplied in the spring - a period of about
a month, maybe 6 weeks. Larger GF don't even see daphnia. They ignore
them. Culture what kind of worms? I have a huge compost pile for the
garden and still can't harvest enough for more than an occasional snack for
them and that's only in the spring and fall.

White worms, earth worms, the smaller "red worms" not the giant nightcrawlers.

They will take a while to grow up to the mass you need but they will do it.

I think the lst time I bought fishfood was 1988. Anywhere that
sells bait has redworms.

What kind of plants would outgrow constant daily destruction?

Duckweed! Hornwort, water sprite. It's probbaly cheaper to set up a garage sale
20 wiht plants and stong light than to buy food.

All I left in the bottom was enough water to cover their backs. About a 92
to 94% water change. I also vacuumed every inch of the gravel *again* and
ran the DE filter for a few hours.

That's a good start, now hook the diatom filter back up and stir up the
gravel. Recharge the filter when it gets cloged, repeat. It may take
days of doing this but eventually it'll come clean.

You'll be amazed at how much crud is still down there. BTDT.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net