list of scaleless fish?

LM wrote:
Hi all,

I have been wondering which loach species are considered scaleless.. I
assume not all are scaleless?

Is there a list somewhere listing all the species that are in the
scaleless family, and thus have to worry about medication strength?

I currently have dwarf chain loach (b. sidthemunki) and zebra loach (b.
striata).. not sure if they are considered scaless.. I don't think they
are, but I'm not very knowledgeable about this.

linda

clown loache and yoyo loach are scaleless, I think they all are but no
expert also my upside down catfish are.

"justice" wrote in message
news:YDPQf.22759$vC4.7492@clgrps12...
LM wrote:
Hi all,

I have been wondering which loach species are considered scaleless.. I
assume not all are scaleless?

Is there a list somewhere listing all the species that are in the
scaleless family, and thus have to worry about medication strength?

I currently have dwarf chain loach (b. sidthemunki) and zebra loach
(b.
striata).. not sure if they are considered scaless.. I don't think
they
are, but I'm not very knowledgeable about this.

linda

clown loache and yoyo loach are scaleless, I think they all are but no
expert also my upside down catfish are.

A proper list would be a very good thing to have. Kudos for such a good
question. Since the motivation is to know what fish are sensitive to
certain medicinal concentrations, the list should have 3 parts to it,
scaleless fish (ie: botia and some other loaches like Kuhlis),
incompletely scaled fish (ie: plecos, corydoras have the same sensitivity
due to their underbelly scaleless skin), and scaled fish (this is an
easier category : any fish smaller than 1 inch would be vulnerable). It
would also be good to know what medications, as it's only treatments for
external parasites which I'm aware of, so is it the formalin or the
malachite green and/or other things?
--
www.NetMax.tk

NetMax wrote:

A proper list would be a very good thing to have. Kudos for such a good
question. Since the motivation is to know what fish are sensitive to
certain medicinal concentrations, the list should have 3 parts to it,
scaleless fish (ie: botia and some other loaches like Kuhlis),
incompletely scaled fish (ie: plecos, corydoras have the same sensitivity
due to their underbelly scaleless skin), and scaled fish (this is an
easier category : any fish smaller than 1 inch would be vulnerable).

Uhm, I don't want to correct you here Netmax, but perhaps I should...

Loaches aren't scaleless. They do however have near-microscopic scales.
Catfish on the other hand are scaleless. AFAIK all of them. They may
have armor plating, but the plates are not scales.

They are however all considered sensitive to medications, although the
exact reason for this is unknown to me. Especially malachite green is
nasty in that it seems hard to predict which species will be sensitive
to it, and which wont. However, is malachite green still available in
the US? I believe it's been outlawed here in the EU (or at least is in
the process of being outlawed).

wrote in message
oups.com...

NetMax wrote:

A proper list would be a very good thing to have. Kudos for such a
good
question. Since the motivation is to know what fish are sensitive to
certain medicinal concentrations, the list should have 3 parts to it,
scaleless fish (ie: botia and some other loaches like Kuhlis),
incompletely scaled fish (ie: plecos, corydoras have the same
sensitivity
due to their underbelly scaleless skin), and scaled fish (this is an
easier category : any fish smaller than 1 inch would be vulnerable).

Uhm, I don't want to correct you here Netmax, but perhaps I should...

The only danger is that I might learn something ;~)

Loaches aren't scaleless. They do however have near-microscopic scales.
Catfish on the other hand are scaleless. AFAIK all of them. They may
have armor plating, but the plates are not scales.

Interesting about the loaches - that one might leave itself open to some
interpretation. Your description on the armored cats is much better than
mine. 'Incompletely scaled' was my bad English for partially armored.

They are however all considered sensitive to medications, although the
exact reason for this is unknown to me. Especially malachite green is
nasty in that it seems hard to predict which species will be sensitive
to it, and which wont. However, is malachite green still available in
the US? I believe it's been outlawed here in the EU (or at least is in
the process of being outlawed).

AFAIK, only California had a real issue with it. Everywhere else in
North America, it was still available, albeit with its warnings about
causing cancer.
--
www.NetMax.tk

NetMax wrote:
wrote in message

They are however all considered sensitive to medications, although the
exact reason for this is unknown to me. Especially malachite green is
nasty in that it seems hard to predict which species will be sensitive
to it, and which wont. However, is malachite green still available in
the US? I believe it's been outlawed here in the EU (or at least is in
the process of being outlawed).

AFAIK, only California had a real issue with it. Everywhere else in
North America, it was still available, albeit with its warnings about
causing cancer.

I can buy malachite green in California, no problem. It's aquatic
plants than can be tricky. I miss tropical sunset hygro.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Is it true that all ick meds can cause cancer (to humans) and how, getting
it on you often, once or whats the deal?
Nikki




"Altum" wrote in message
et...
NetMax wrote:
wrote in message

They are however all considered sensitive to medications, although the
exact reason for this is unknown to me. Especially malachite green is
nasty in that it seems hard to predict which species will be sensitive
to it, and which wont. However, is malachite green still available in
the US? I believe it's been outlawed here in the EU (or at least is in
the process of being outlawed).

AFAIK, only California had a real issue with it. Everywhere else in
North America, it was still available, albeit with its warnings about
causing cancer.

I can buy malachite green in California, no problem. It's aquatic plants
than can be tricky. I miss tropical sunset hygro.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Nikki wrote:
Is it true that all ick meds can cause cancer (to humans) and how, getting
it on you often, once or whats the deal?
Nikki

Let's put it into perspective. The radiation from your CRT and cell
phone should concern you much more than your fish meds.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

I thought catfish are type of loaches? or may be I'm only thinking
dojo (japanese catfish), which I remember reading it's a cousin to
loaches... dojo is covered in slime... I guess that is the key to
identifying scaleless fish?

didn't know corys and plecos are sensitive.. plecos look so robust..
corys.. well, didn't think they were the sensitive kind of the sort :-P

so.. does that mean my botias (zebra loach, sidthemunkis) are ok with
the meds (antibiotics and anti-parasitics) as "normal" fish? (unless
the package says "do not medicate bottom feeders, loaches" on it)

I hear lots about malachite green being toxic to scaleless/sensitive
fish and plants?, but what about methylene blue?

CA has issues with many things. as far as I know, it's the only state
that puts a warning label on crystal dinnerware (wine glasses, etc)
since crystal glass has lead in it... (I have a real hard time
believing lead that is in a matrix of glass is going to leech all that
much to be that toxic! chemically speaking glass is one of most stable
substance...)

anyhow...

linda

"LM" wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought catfish are type of loaches? or may be I'm only thinking
dojo (japanese catfish), which I remember reading it's a cousin to
loaches... dojo is covered in slime... I guess that is the key to
identifying scaleless fish?

I think Dojos would definitely be susceptible to the meds. The slime coat
is characteristic of scaled fish too though.

didn't know corys and plecos are sensitive.. plecos look so robust..
corys.. well, didn't think they were the sensitive kind of the sort :-P

Have you ever seen the belly of a cory after too big a meal? Swells like a
little balloon, no armor under there, just skin, so they are vulnerable too.

so.. does that mean my botias (zebra loach, sidthemunkis) are ok with
the meds (antibiotics and anti-parasitics) as "normal" fish? (unless
the package says "do not medicate bottom feeders, loaches" on it)

I wouldn't count on any conformity in warning labels. It's unregulated. If
it says use half dosage for anything, it would be half dosage for the entire
group we identified as vulnerable imo.

I hear lots about malachite green being toxic to scaleless/sensitive
fish and plants?, but what about methylene blue?

Good question. From the view of 'staining' (tissue penetration and
accumulation) I would lean towards 'yes', but from the view of toxicity, I
would lean towards 'no', so I'll leave that one for the experts, or Richard
;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

CA has issues with many things. as far as I know, it's the only state
that puts a warning label on crystal dinnerware (wine glasses, etc)
since crystal glass has lead in it... (I have a real hard time
believing lead that is in a matrix of glass is going to leech all that
much to be that toxic! chemically speaking glass is one of most stable
substance...)

anyhow...

linda