Is there a natural way to raise tank alkalinity

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:56:16 -0600, NetMax wrote
(in article ):

Dolomite, aragonite, crushed coral, limestone, tufa, petrified wood, etc
will all add calcium carbonates, but may not solve your problem.
Minerals dissolve at variable rates, i) permeability which varies by
mineral, ii) exposed surface area, so limestone is much slower than
coarse coral, and iii) acidity of the water relative to it's natural
point of stabilization (so coral reacts to pH 7 more than limestone, as
it stabilizes at a higher pH)


Do you have any experience using cuttlebone as a buffer. I'd guess it's
mostly calcium carbonate, just like a sea shell. It can be broken up or even
powered by hand and can be purchased from suppliers who wouldn't sell you
"just a little" crushed coral.

OTOH, I fear that cuttlebone may contain some phosphates. If it does, its BGA
city for anyone who uses it.

-E

ML wrote,
it appears that I need to change it every once in a while.......

I don't like using crushed coral or crushed oyster shells to raise pH
to a target value less than pH 8.0. In an established tank of fish used
to a pH 6.5, it would raise the pH way to fast, passing your target of
pH 7.0, or whatever. I found that a marble chip or two raises pH much
slower. By slowly adding baking soda over a few days, you can raise
your pH to the target value you want, and then hold it there with a
marble chip, or two placed in your filter's box....

new fish that died.....
established fish that died.....

Most people kill their new fish by osmotic pressure shock (used to be
called pH shock), and I can see how that happens, but that's not what
killed the established fish! An aged tank, low pH (lowered TDS), then a
large water change using water with a high pH (raised TDS) would/could
cause osmotic pressure shock, but you said your tap water has a low pH
(lowered TDS). Not enough difference in TDS to make enough of an
osmotic pressure change to kill fish! ....
Nope, I would stick a marble chip in the filter and look for another
reason as to what killed the fish, being that *both* the new fish *and*
the old fish died. Just adding my 2 cents worth............. Frank

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:35:46 GMT, "ML" wrote:

Thanks for the many good responses. When I first added the crushed coral,
it seemed to work well, but it appears to diminish over time and from Mister
Gardner's response below, it appears that I need to change it every once and
a while. I need to look for coarser crushed gravel than I purchased the
first time. When I added it to my filter it quickly seized the impeller.

Yikes! That must have been pretty fine grained stuff to get into the
impeller. Or your mesh bag doesn't have a fine enough mesh. I place my
mesh bag behind one of the filter bag wells in my Whispers, so even if
the stuff does escape the bag, it's downstream (or upstream?) of the
impeller - meaning that it is in water that has already passed the
impeller and is ready to go over the falls back into the aquarium.

At this point my plan is to invest in a KH and GH test kit as well as coarse
crushed coral that I can add to the filter.

A hardness measurement won't tell you about your ammonia, nitrites,
pH, etc. I strongly encourage to get those readings as well.

And from Netmax's reply I will look from the acid source - although I think
I know what it was. We had an automatic fish feeder and it was probably
over feeding the fish. We set it up for a vacation last June and never
turned it off. Since the difficulties I have turned it off and started to
get to know my remaining five fish a little more personally

If the feeder is the culprit, it will show up in your ammonia,
nitrites etc tests.

-- Mister Gardener

On 27 Mar 2006 02:18:23 -0800, "Frank"
wrote:

ML wrote,
it appears that I need to change it every once in a while.......

I don't like using crushed coral or crushed oyster shells to raise pH
to a target value less than pH 8.0. In an established tank of fish used
to a pH 6.5, it would raise the pH way to fast, passing your target of
pH 7.0, or whatever. I found that a marble chip or two raises pH much
slower. By slowly adding baking soda over a few days, you can raise
your pH to the target value you want, and then hold it there with a
marble chip, or two placed in your filter's box....

new fish that died.....
established fish that died.....

Most people kill their new fish by osmotic pressure shock (used to be
called pH shock), and I can see how that happens, but that's not what
killed the established fish! An aged tank, low pH (lowered TDS), then a
large water change using water with a high pH (raised TDS) would/could
cause osmotic pressure shock, but you said your tap water has a low pH
(lowered TDS). Not enough difference in TDS to make enough of an
osmotic pressure change to kill fish! ....
Nope, I would stick a marble chip in the filter and look for another
reason as to what killed the fish, being that *both* the new fish *and*
the old fish died. Just adding my 2 cents worth............. Frank

And 2 cents from Frank is worth a few bucks next to many of us.

-- Mister Gardener

Hi..

[crushed corals/crushed sea shells]

.... are able to raise both, GH and KH. In fish tanks filter
bacteria produce a lot CO2 but plants and chalk-rich
material compete to CO2. And plants are also able to reduce
KH. Means you might possibly have to control and add CO2,
too.

A possible reason to raise KH using NaHCO3 is a low
("unstable") KH _and_ a significantly higher GH. Attention:
Keep KH = GH! Means you will have to calculate in advance
the allowable NaHCO3 addition.

Sometimes less is more - why don't you enjoy that water you
have? :-)
--
cu
Marco

"Eric" wrote in message
. sbcglobal.net...
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:56:16 -0600, NetMax wrote
(in article ):

Dolomite, aragonite, crushed coral, limestone, tufa, petrified wood, etc
will all add calcium carbonates, but may not solve your problem.
Minerals dissolve at variable rates, i) permeability which varies by
mineral, ii) exposed surface area, so limestone is much slower than
coarse coral, and iii) acidity of the water relative to it's natural
point of stabilization (so coral reacts to pH 7 more than limestone, as
it stabilizes at a higher pH)


Do you have any experience using cuttlebone as a buffer. I'd guess it's
mostly calcium carbonate, just like a sea shell. It can be broken up or
even
powered by hand and can be purchased from suppliers who wouldn't sell you
"just a little" crushed coral.

OTOH, I fear that cuttlebone may contain some phosphates. If it does, its
BGA
city for anyone who uses it.

-E


We had a bird dept. so with lots of access to cuttlebone I tried it in about
20 tanks, but my results were inconclusive. Sorry.
--
www.NetMax.tk

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:29:55 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

We had a bird dept. so with lots of access to cuttlebone I tried it in about
20 tanks, but my results were inconclusive. Sorry.

When I managed a Petco pet department within a large discount
department store, think Zayre's, a shipment of 200 young parakeets got
opened by accident in the wrong place and it was several days before
we re-captured all of those little birds from every department
imaginable as well as in the rafters of the ceiling-less Quonset style
building. Crews came in during overnight hours when the store was
closed and erected tall ladders from which they swung their big
butterfly nets. It was a very tragi-comical scene.

-- Mister Gardener

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
...
When I managed a Petco pet department within a large discount
department store, think Zayre's, a shipment of 200 young parakeets got
opened by accident in the wrong place and it was several days before
we re-captured all of those little birds from every department
imaginable as well as in the rafters of the ceiling-less Quonset style
building. Crews came in during overnight hours when the store was
closed and erected tall ladders from which they swung their big
butterfly nets. It was a very tragi-comical scene.
============================
Now all the birds come into the pet stores with their flight feathers
clipped short. They can't fly at all.

The sparrows get into some stores like Home Depot and Lowe's though. You
can hear them chirping from who-knows-where in the store. One of the
workers there said they die unless they manage to make it back out the door
themselves and amazingly, some of them do!
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:17:00 -0600, Koi-Lo wrote
(in article ):


============================
Now all the birds come into the pet stores with their flight feathers
clipped short. They can't fly at all.


It's pretty much just the keets and other hookbills that are clipped. Finches
aren't and they're tough to catch. Luckily I've never had to try
to catch a loose quail.

-E

ML wrote:

I have a 20g fresh water tank that is 3+ years old.
Our water is naturally soft and I have problems keeping the PH up. It is a
community tank and I would like to keep the PH around 7.0. It is currently
about 6.6.

Leave your tab water standing over night and then measure the pH. It may
well be the "normal" pH of your water.

The PH is low which I know and so is the alkalinity.
A couple of years ago when I had PH problems before, I got advice to add
crushed coral and maybe some sea shells as a natural way to raise the PH.
This seemed to work for about a year. I recently added a few extra sea
shells to try to raise the PH.

You have two choices he Either you keep fishes that thrive in soft,
acidic water (Tetras, Bettas, loaches...) or you add calcium carbonat
into the filter to increase hardness and pH. This can be lime stone,
crushed coral, shells... The finer the material, the more rapidely it
will work. In any case you'll have to replace the stuff as it dissolves.