Cycling woes

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:14:35 GMT, "David McDermott"
wrote:

Ahhh ....that makes sense. My whisper is from a kit - serves me right for
trying to save a few bucks. I'm sure the tank could probably manage
without, but I will definitely get a spong as well. That way I won't have
to be so careful with the precious biobag since it won't be the only
bacteria home in the filter. I must say, I have been quite happy with this
kit though, it came with literally everything I needed except for this
little hitch. I have in the past avoided kits, never trusting their quality
and always assuming that I know what I need better than the guys who
assemble the kits. Now that I understand the Whisper design and I actually
know what model I have I feel much better about my decision. Although I'm
sure my fish who are currently bathing in ammonia will have a slightly
different point of view......

I haven't taken a good look at kits since I used to throw them
together when I managed a pet store back in the days of . . .
and back then, we generally threw junk into the kits. Company policy,
not mine. I'm glad to hear that situation has improved. If this is a
ten gallon setup, I think the store could have gone the extra one or
two dollars and put in at least a real Whisper 20. I'm glad we got it
figured out, that's one less thing to keep me awake at night.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

David McDermott wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com...
Altum wrote,
I'm not good with
fishless cycles, but I'm sure someone can tell you how much ordinary
ammonia to add to finish maturing your filter. Personally......
Fishless cycle is the only way I would do a cycle - no fish to harm or
kill, a *lot* less work (no water changes), and a *lot* faster (10 to
14 days instead of 4 to 8 weeks). 5 to 6 drops per gal. of pure
ammonia is around 5ppm, which would be enough ammonia for a full tank
of fish. The ammonia only needs to be put into the tank _one_ time at
5ppm. Daily 'feeding' of ammonia may lead to what is called a 'never
ending cycle'. If the filter was seeded with squeezings from an
established filter, nitrites should show up around the 7th or 8th day
and drop to 0 somewhere between the 10th and 14th day. NitrAtes will be
quite high at this point and a 50 to 70% water change is needed to
bring the levels down enough for fish. If wanted, the *full* fish load
can be put into the tank at this time. If you are going to wait a
day/week, before adding fish, one or two drops of pure ammonia needs to
be added to the tank each day to 'feed' the now established bacteria
colony untill the fish are added............. Frank


I think for my next tank I will try fishless. I have always disliked
putting the fish through the stress of a cycle, it seems unnecessarily cruel
and the worst part is there isn't much you can do to stop it.

I changed about 15% of my water again last night and tested the ammonia this
morning. It is down a bit, to about 0.75 ppm. I was hoping it would be
down even further after diluting but I guess it's still a small victory.
I'm going to do another 10 - 15% change either tonight or tomorrow. I know
all this fresh water isn't exactly good either but I always dechlorinate so
hopefully that will ease the stress a bit.

You need to get past the idea that fresh water is bad for your fish.
Ammonia is FAR worse. Change 30% tonight and 30% tomorrow. The ammonia
will drop by half.

I was checking my filter last night ( a Whisper 10) and I'm a little
confused. I have asked about this filter in the newsgroup before and it was
described as having the Bio-bag and an extra foam insert meant to house the
bacteria. Well mine has no such foam insert and I assumed that the flossy
biobag that contains the carbon would house the bacteria. Does anyone else
have this filter? If so did mine for some reason ship without the foam and
should I be complaining to the pet store? The filter was sealed and
everything so I didn't suspect anything until I read some other posts.
Could this be the reason it is taking so long for the ammonia to drop?

There's nothing magic about foam. Bacteria will grow on any tank
surface exposed to ammonia/nitrite and oxygen. Give it time.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

You need to get past the idea that fresh water is bad for your fish.
Ammonia is FAR worse. Change 30% tonight and 30% tomorrow. The ammonia
will drop by half.


There's nothing magic about foam. Bacteria will grow on any tank
surface exposed to ammonia/nitrite and oxygen. Give it time.

!!Altum is dead-on-Common sense. Like the air we breath, waiting for the
smog to go away. Fish share a common element with us...oxygen.

Altum wrote,
There's nothing magic about foam. Bacteria will grow on any tank
surface exposed to ammonia/nitrite and oxygen. Give it time...

If I understand it right, the filter came with a mesh bag - not a
bio-bag, or foam insert. Without enough bio-media, I can see a filter
that may not be able to keep up with the fish load - if that's the
case, a little foam would indeed be "magic" ;-) ............... Frank

Frank wrote:
Altum wrote,
There's nothing magic about foam. Bacteria will grow on any tank
surface exposed to ammonia/nitrite and oxygen. Give it time...

If I understand it right, the filter came with a mesh bag - not a
bio-bag, or foam insert. Without enough bio-media, I can see a filter
that may not be able to keep up with the fish load - if that's the
case, a little foam would indeed be "magic" ;-) ............... Frank

Hmm... I thought the original post said Whisper Bio-bag.

Don't most brand-name filters that on the market provide enough surface
area for nitrification in a moderately stocked tank? I'd be awfully
surprised if someone couldn't cycle a freshwater tank with a properly
sized standard filter.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2006-04-27, Altum wrote:
Frank wrote:
Altum wrote,
There's nothing magic about foam. Bacteria will grow on any tank
surface exposed to ammonia/nitrite and oxygen. Give it time...

If I understand it right, the filter came with a mesh bag - not a
bio-bag, or foam insert. Without enough bio-media, I can see a filter
that may not be able to keep up with the fish load - if that's the
case, a little foam would indeed be "magic" ;-) ............... Frank

Hmm... I thought the original post said Whisper Bio-bag.


The model that came with my Tetra All-Glass Starter Aquarium kit does
have a "Bio-bag", consisting of an "Aerobic Frame", a mesh filter bag
that slips over it, and "Whisper filter carbon" inside the bag. The
instructions say that the aerobic frame is "deeply etched so as to
provide a receptive surface for aerobic bacteria." I suppose when you
need to chnage the bag you keep that colonized frame.

You guys doubtless know this routine/functionality. Just clarifying my
model.

Cheers,

Fred

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFEULzWJXD4LJUXJmMRAoGmAJ9e1mrTVzqf+i+VvYJhsQ DUdMKKDgCfUotY
bWESSPp+835Xs5iDYcHLe00=
=KIi6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
"Never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after."
--Alphonse Allais