hydrometer dilemma

If you leave it on the dish drainer make sure it is upside down so it does not collect
dust

--
Boomer

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

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"Cindy" wrote in message
y.com...
: Pszemol wrote:
: Try soaking both hydrometers for a day or two in kitchen vineger regularly.
: Then wash it with warm water. This will dissolve deposits and make them
: more
: reliable. I have also read on the back of the packaging that the
: manufacturer
: recommends soaking it for at least 24 hours in sea water before
: first use to "season the needle". I have no idea what science is
: behind this recomendation, but maybe it is important fact you missed
: comparing your old, dried out hygrometer readings with the other one.
:
: From my own experience I prefer swing arms over refractometers by far!
: Contrary to some people here I found them much easier to use than
: to stare into tiny viewfinder and find the reading on very, very tiny scale
: with an edge between blue and white regions being not always very sharp.
: It might be some problem with my blue refractometer made in China
: or some problems with my vision but I just find it very difficult to use
: :-)
: With added uncertainity of most of them being calibrated to NaCl not NSW
: they are not worth the price for the average aquarist. I can use Deep Six
: hydrometer with good or bad light and I find them very reliable when
: I wash them frequently and not let them dry with salt water in their
: cavity.
:
: I've never used anything but a swing arm. And I always rinse with fresh
: water after using -- learned that when I got the Seatest. I just keep
: the thing on the dish drainer. But I'll soak it and see how it reads
: after that, plus I bought me a 2-liter bottle of Coke so I can
: calibrate it. Thanks!

I think Wayne that is mostly are fault as we may make it sound that way :-) And you will
see thing like "the new salinity std" all over the place. It was really not official until
1978......and.......about 65 years before that was when it was first proposed. Yah know,
all the cat and dog fighting took some time LOL. It use to be Chlorinity, where you
measured the chloride ion content. Hydrometers and refracts have never been the std..but
are often used. Std Sea Water Hydrometer is calibrated to 15 C . The old Std was often
called Copenhagen Sea Water, samples of real water that sat in a fault.. It is now often
called Practical Salinity Units (PSU) based on EC ( Electric Conductivity). This
conductivity std of a sea water is a sample set to a standard KCl solution of 32.43565
g/Kg @ 15 C and 1 atm.

You can buy REAL Sea Water Std here.....got money LOL

http://www.oceanscientific.co.uk/

--
Boomer

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
http://www.coralrealm.com



"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
: Wow I though it had been made the new standard in like the
: last 5 years or so :-)
:
: Wayne Sallee
: Wayne's Pets
:
:

Y
:
: Boomer wrote on 6/6/2006 9:36 PM:
: "since conductivity
: is the new scientific standard for measuring salinity"
:
:
: Old Wayne, very old, as far back as the 60s :-)
:

OK let me add my 2 cents...how accurate do you need salinity to be ?
If you shoot for the range that's indicated on the swing arm
and you keep an eye on your corals and other tank life.
It's safe to assume that you are where you need to be.

I have my best success by keeping the arm somewhere in the middle
usually to the high side. .022 .023 .024

How about replacing your Deep Six every other year, just
to make sure you have a functioning Hydrometer...(gunk build up, etc)
They're only $10

If the corals and fish look healthy I don't see the need for such high
accuracy.
In other words, close enough.

Chris

"Susan" wrote in message
.. .
I wouldn't be without a refractometer. I've used the swing arm ones and
never could get the same reading twice. You can rest assured, Cindy, if
you are interested in buying from Dr Fosters or Premium Aquatics that both
places are excellent place to buy from!!! Also, Premium Aquatics has the
best live rock (if anyone is interested) that I've run across. Not trying
to start a "rock war" again ;-)

Susan
"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
Try soaking both hydrometers for a day or two in kitchen vineger
regularly.
Then wash it with warm water. This will dissolve deposits and make them
more
reliable. I have also read on the back of the packaging that the
manufacturer
recommends soaking it for at least 24 hours in sea water before
first use to "season the needle". I have no idea what science is
behind this recomendation, but maybe it is important fact you missed
comparing your old, dried out hygrometer readings with the other one.

From my own experience I prefer swing arms over refractometers by far!
Contrary to some people here I found them much easier to use than
to stare into tiny viewfinder and find the reading on very, very tiny
scale
with an edge between blue and white regions being not always very sharp.
It might be some problem with my blue refractometer made in China
or some problems with my vision but I just find it very difficult to use
:-)
With added uncertainity of most of them being calibrated to NaCl not NSW
they are not worth the price for the average aquarist. I can use Deep Six
hydrometer with good or bad light and I find them very reliable when
I wash them frequently and not let them dry with salt water in their
cavity.

I have alot of expensive inverts. so I try to keep it fairly accurate. I
agree though, as long as everybody looks happy in your tank you should be
safe.

Susan
"TheRock" wrote in message
news:Xz2ig.8890$Rv1.4529@trndny02...
OK let me add my 2 cents...how accurate do you need salinity to be ?
If you shoot for the range that's indicated on the swing arm
and you keep an eye on your corals and other tank life.
It's safe to assume that you are where you need to be.

I have my best success by keeping the arm somewhere in the middle
usually to the high side. .022 .023 .024

How about replacing your Deep Six every other year, just
to make sure you have a functioning Hydrometer...(gunk build up, etc)
They're only $10

If the corals and fish look healthy I don't see the need for such high
accuracy.
In other words, close enough.

Chris

"Susan" wrote in message
.. .
I wouldn't be without a refractometer. I've used the swing arm ones and
never could get the same reading twice. You can rest assured, Cindy, if
you are interested in buying from Dr Fosters or Premium Aquatics that both
places are excellent place to buy from!!! Also, Premium Aquatics has the
best live rock (if anyone is interested) that I've run across. Not trying
to start a "rock war" again ;-)

Susan
"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
Try soaking both hydrometers for a day or two in kitchen vineger
regularly.
Then wash it with warm water. This will dissolve deposits and make them
more
reliable. I have also read on the back of the packaging that the
manufacturer
recommends soaking it for at least 24 hours in sea water before
first use to "season the needle". I have no idea what science is
behind this recomendation, but maybe it is important fact you missed
comparing your old, dried out hygrometer readings with the other one.

From my own experience I prefer swing arms over refractometers by far!
Contrary to some people here I found them much easier to use than
to stare into tiny viewfinder and find the reading on very, very tiny
scale
with an edge between blue and white regions being not always very sharp.
It might be some problem with my blue refractometer made in China
or some problems with my vision but I just find it very difficult to use
:-)
With added uncertainity of most of them being calibrated to NaCl not NSW
they are not worth the price for the average aquarist. I can use Deep
Six
hydrometer with good or bad light and I find them very reliable when
I wash them frequently and not let them dry with salt water in their
cavity.

"Susan" wrote in message .. .
I have alot of expensive inverts. so I try to keep it fairly accurate. I
agree though, as long as everybody looks happy in your tank you should be
safe.

Why would you care to keep it so stable and "acurate" if even
in the ocean itself, salinity and temperature fluctuates a lot?

Check these two articles out:
http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php
http://www.reefland.com/rho/0106/reefc8.php
What is your conclusion from the reading ?

Interesting articles. I guess my concern is that my tanks are small and
being only 29 and 46 gallons are much more susceptible to "crashing" than
the ocean or sea where there is mega gallons. Just my 2 cents worth

Susan
"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Susan" wrote in message
.. .
I have alot of expensive inverts. so I try to keep it fairly accurate. I
agree though, as long as everybody looks happy in your tank you should be
safe.

Why would you care to keep it so stable and "acurate" if even
in the ocean itself, salinity and temperature fluctuates a lot?

Check these two articles out:
http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php
http://www.reefland.com/rho/0106/reefc8.php
What is your conclusion from the reading ?

Yep, stability of the aquarium is over rated. Though,
people often have things that come from different
environments, so that narrow the range a bit.

But I still like to know with a decent accuracy what my
tank conditions are.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 6/9/2006 9:22 AM:
"Susan" wrote in message
.. .
I have alot of expensive inverts. so I try to keep it fairly
accurate. I agree though, as long as everybody looks happy in your
tank you should be safe.

Why would you care to keep it so stable and "acurate" if even
in the ocean itself, salinity and temperature fluctuates a lot?

Check these two articles out:
http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php
http://www.reefland.com/rho/0106/reefc8.php
What is your conclusion from the reading ?

"Susan" wrote in message .. .
Interesting articles. I guess my concern is that my tanks are small and
being only 29 and 46 gallons are much more susceptible to "crashing" than
the ocean or sea where there is mega gallons. Just my 2 cents worth

I do not see how the size of the tank has anything to do with overrated
need for the acuracy in salinity reading and keeping it stable in our hobby...
The articles show, that the salinity and temperature fluctuates in the oceans
and animals not only tolerate these fluctuations but sometimes REQUIRE them...

Keeping salinity and temperature stable by automated systems (like toping off
with fresh water every hour or so) to not let the salinity rise even for 1 ppt
is just overdoing it... Measuring salinity with acuracy greater than 1 ppt
is overdoing it as well as keeping it very stable. It is just not needed and
pushes you in the wrong direction of buing unnessesary equipment just to gain
FALSE comfort you "took good care of your expensive animals". It is FALSE
assumption you have to buy expensive stuff to keep expensive corals...
You could do the same with little equipment purchased for very little money
like old trusty swing arm... And it is not like "I am rich I can afford it".
Even if you can afford it, it is just not necessary.

The reason for tank crash is usually NOT the salinity nor temperature...
I had 30 gallons tank operated with a broken chiller bringing the temperature
down overnight from 82F to 70F - yes, animals and corals were stressed, but
bringing the temperature back to normal slowly fixed everything with no losses.
Similar thing with the salinity. Same 30 gallon tank was loosing 1/2 gallon of
water per day due to the evaporation. Leaving the tank for couple of days
with no toping it off and letting the salinity rise to 36-37ppt and then bringing
it down to 34ppt did not hurt a thing... Again: it is small tank, like yours.

I know this is an extreme example bordering with simply neglecting the tank
maintenance but still it shows how rediculous are some of attempts to keep
the salinity or temperature stable almost to the 3rd digit after the decimal place :-)

Keep it simple and relax...
This kind of acuracy is good for the biol/chem laboratory, not in our hobby!

For qute a few years I had always kept l;arge marine tanks 60 gao or
above.Now all my larger tanks are down or converted to FW with lots of
plants or just stored. I much prefer keeping NANO and PICO sized
tanks, as I am able to keep numerous individual diverse setups. I have
a setup that has nothng but whats around these parts in the Gulf of
Mexico, another with undesireables (bristle worms, aipstasia, monjano
etc etc) and a heap with al other neat thngs in it. Every room, from
bathroom to living room has at leat one or two tanks in it of 2 gal
or less capapcoity fully sotcked with a suitable fish and corals, and
maintaining water temp/ fluctuations have never really been a problem
any worse than what the large tanks were....and I have yet to have a
crash on any of my small tanks either......
Small is not any harder to maintain than large is.......its all
dependant on the person in charge taking care of what has to be done
and a understanding of what is what. If you c an keep a large setup
keeping a small setup with a few setup changes is not any different.

Try this. Setup at least a tank of 55 gal, make it nice, reef / fish
etc....then set off to sell it and make a profit.......hard to
do........then make up a small setuyp 2 gal pico or less.....I can
sell most all of my small PICO's and turn a profit, and over the years
have sold quite a few and have folks that have been bugging me to sell
me some of what I have yet and I often throw a setup together for
folks of 2 gal capacity and make a buck to boot.......I even have a
person that wants my tank of undesireables.....

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:54:08 -0500, "Pszemol"
wrote:
"Susan" wrote in message .. .
Interesting articles. I guess my concern is that my tanks are small and
being only 29 and 46 gallons are much more susceptible to "crashing" than
the ocean or sea where there is mega gallons. Just my 2 cents worth

I do not see how the size of the tank has anything to do with overrated
need for the acuracy in salinity reading and keeping it stable in our hobby...
The articles show, that the salinity and temperature fluctuates in the oceans
and animals not only tolerate these fluctuations but sometimes REQUIRE them...

Keeping salinity and temperature stable by automated systems (like toping off
with fresh water every hour or so) to not let the salinity rise even for 1 ppt
is just overdoing it... Measuring salinity with acuracy greater than 1 ppt
is overdoing it as well as keeping it very stable. It is just not needed and
pushes you in the wrong direction of buing unnessesary equipment just to gain
FALSE comfort you "took good care of your expensive animals". It is FALSE
assumption you have to buy expensive stuff to keep expensive corals...
You could do the same with little equipment purchased for very little money
like old trusty swing arm... And it is not like "I am rich I can afford it".
Even if you can afford it, it is just not necessary.

The reason for tank crash is usually NOT the salinity nor temperature...
I had 30 gallons tank operated with a broken chiller bringing the temperature
down overnight from 82F to 70F - yes, animals and corals were stressed, but
bringing the temperature back to normal slowly fixed everything with no losses.
Similar thing with the salinity. Same 30 gallon tank was loosing 1/2 gallon of
water per day due to the evaporation. Leaving the tank for couple of days
with no toping it off and letting the salinity rise to 36-37ppt and then bringing
it down to 34ppt did not hurt a thing... Again: it is small tank, like yours.

I know this is an extreme example bordering with simply neglecting the tank
maintenance but still it shows how rediculous are some of attempts to keep
the salinity or temperature stable almost to the 3rd digit after the decimal place :-)

Keep it simple and relax...
This kind of acuracy is good for the biol/chem laboratory, not in our hobby!

[SNIP]
If the corals and fish look healthy I don't see the need for such high
accuracy.
In other words, close enough.

Chris

The difference between my two hydrometers was so huge that who knows
where "close enough" is? Maybe the fish LOOK healthy to me, but would
live a lot longer if the salinity was correct.

Besides, I like ACCURACY. "Close enough" doesn't do it for me.