water change advice

Well I did the water change today, about 30%. What a mess. I thought I'd
ask some "experienced" people's advice.

I have questions like:

Am I the only one using store bought water?!
What do you mix your new water in?
Do you sit there and stir or have extra powerheads doing the trick or is
there something I haven't thought of?
What's the best way to take the water from the container on the ground up to
the aquarium?

Here's a couple of things I didn't think about before I started. Thank
goodness there's nothing but snails and hermits right now.

1) I have Emperor 400's, when the water is too low they can't pull in the
water to circulate and aerate. This leads to one deadwater tank. I thought
maybe I should throw in air stones... is that what you guys do? Is stones
enough or do I need to have some filtration still working?

2) When I'm putting water back in (I lifted those 5 gallon water jugs) it
sure seemed like the flow from pouring might a bit rough on the rocks and
critters below once I get them. Yes I can sit there much longer and only
let the heavy jug slowly pour out, but there's gotta be another way. Can
you siphon uphill as easily?

Anyway, I've read a couple of things on the web but I don't have a sump,
refugium or a RO/DI connected nearby so I didn't get a lot of help. And
about those RO/DI's, do they have one that doesn't have to be plugged into
my plumbing? (small house, no basements in Texas and a decorator wife
wouldn't allow it). I'd like one that pulled water from one container into
another.

So what is your smooth water change technique?

Thanks for your time and advice,

Bryan
www.geocities.com/bryg30/ for setup details

I buy store water because the amount I need compared to the cost of
RO/Di was to much. It may not be in your case. I got my first one for
130$ then upgraded after I moved and started using a larger sump.
www.airwaterice.com. Yes this has to be hooked up to the pluming. There
is a sadle tap for the main water and a drain valve for the RO
rejection. Buy the mini reef keeper model with a storage tank and
always, always fill your bottle up in the sink NOT on the FLOOR. It
trickles when you are watching it but a whole lot more seems to come
out when you are not watching it.

Dont worry about the time you are changing your water for
circulation.Unless you are taking hours..bad.. than there is nothing to
worry about.

Use on the the squeeze bulb siphons for the uphill battle. I used
chairs to make the siphoned water move faster over front of the tank.
http://www.petdiscounters.com/produc...cat=799&page=1

Then I got smart. I have a 35 gallon rubbermaid in the garage. I dump
all of my water in the tub, remixed and heated. Then I used a powerhead
with a line right into the tank.Works much fatser and no dripping on
the carpet. When you do this make sure you hold the line above your
head to make sure no stagnant water stays in the tube or gushes out
when puttin it away. As always watch out for the reverse siphon. NEVER
leave a tube from you tank to anything unless you are doing something
with it. Make it like painting..dont do anything other than this once
you get started.

BTW i just visited your site....No sump, No protien skimmer, and 1
power head. If you really want to have corals you need to read up on
the advatanges of circulation, aireation, and skimming. Also chemicals
and tesing are essential to starting a tank. This is a great forum for
questions but readup on the essentials before thowing money at your
tank. This can be a rewarding hobby and it can also be a depressing one
as well.
Patrick

Bryan wrote:

Am I the only one using store bought water?!

No. I frequently buy bottled spring water.

What do you mix your new water in?

A 32 gallon plastic trash can. I don't use the can for anything else.

Do you sit there and stir or have extra powerheads doing the trick or is
there something I haven't thought of?

I use an old Hagen powerhead. I just drop it in and let it lie on the bottom. I
normally run this for three days.

What's the best way to take the water from the container on the ground up to
the aquarium?

I shut the powerhead off, hook it up to a piece of tubing, drop it back into the
can, run the other end of the tubing into my tank, and cut the powerhead back
on. The tubing must closely fit the outlet of the powerhead. You also have to
rig up something to keep the other end in the tank; I place part of my glass
tank cover on top of the tube.

When the water in the can has been pumped into the tank, I pull the plug on the
powerhead. The tube will now act as a siphon, so pull it out of the tank as soon
as the powerhead is off. You will still have a gallon or two in the can, but you
can pick the can up and pour that amount into the tank.

One other thing. I use a python to siphon water out of the tank. I mix up 25
gallons at a time, so I have placed one of those stick-on thermometers on the
tank at the 25 gallon low level. It's useless as a thermometer, but it shows me
how much water to drain.

1) I have Emperor 400's, when the water is too low they can't pull in the
water to circulate and aerate. This leads to one deadwater tank. I thought
maybe I should throw in air stones... is that what you guys do? Is stones
enough or do I need to have some filtration still working?

Airstones are pretty much useless for anything except creating salt spray for
you to clean up. The best thing is simply to circulate the water so that new
water is always being brought to the surface of the tank. Filters that pull from
near the bottom and discharge at the surface are great for this. Wavemakers are
also good. Even a simple powerhead can help.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

George, thanks for the advice and tips. Sounds like you got the water
change to a perfect process. I'll get another powerhead and let it do the
work next time. (My wife is only being tolerant of the mess for now, I
better get it smoother and faster soon.)

Regards,
Bryan


"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:7yRpg.779$iW2.693@trnddc03...
Bryan wrote:

Am I the only one using store bought water?!

No. I frequently buy bottled spring water.

What do you mix your new water in?

A 32 gallon plastic trash can. I don't use the can for anything else.

Do you sit there and stir or have extra powerheads doing the trick or is
there something I haven't thought of?

I use an old Hagen powerhead. I just drop it in and let it lie on the
bottom. I normally run this for three days.

What's the best way to take the water from the container on the ground up
to the aquarium?

I shut the powerhead off, hook it up to a piece of tubing, drop it back
into the can, run the other end of the tubing into my tank, and cut the
powerhead back on. The tubing must closely fit the outlet of the
powerhead. You also have to rig up something to keep the other end in the
tank; I place part of my glass tank cover on top of the tube.

When the water in the can has been pumped into the tank, I pull the plug
on the powerhead. The tube will now act as a siphon, so pull it out of the
tank as soon as the powerhead is off. You will still have a gallon or two
in the can, but you can pick the can up and pour that amount into the
tank.

One other thing. I use a python to siphon water out of the tank. I mix up
25 gallons at a time, so I have placed one of those stick-on thermometers
on the tank at the 25 gallon low level. It's useless as a thermometer, but
it shows me how much water to drain.

1) I have Emperor 400's, when the water is too low they can't pull in the
water to circulate and aerate. This leads to one deadwater tank. I
thought maybe I should throw in air stones... is that what you guys do?
Is stones enough or do I need to have some filtration still working?

Airstones are pretty much useless for anything except creating salt spray
for you to clean up. The best thing is simply to circulate the water so
that new water is always being brought to the surface of the tank. Filters
that pull from near the bottom and discharge at the surface are great for
this. Wavemakers are also good. Even a simple powerhead can help.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

We have a RO/DI system, which really wasn't that expensive. We found
an old 25-gallon plastic barrel and washed it out exceptionally well,
and use this as a reservoir. The lid had to be cut out larger to
accomodate dropping in a powerhead, but we mix salt in the drum also
and let the powerhead run for an hour or so. Then we use the same
powerhead to uplift the water into a 5-gallon bucket. If we had a
longer piece of the appropriate size tubing, we'd just use that, and
pump directly into the tank system.

When we remove water for replacement, we take the powerhead from the
barrel and put it in the sump, then run a piece of tubing across the
counter into the kitchen sink. Have to use a twist-tie to attach the
"wild end" to the faucet if we don't want to wash the kitchen floor
the hard way.

And we never add anything directly to the tank. For small volumes
(supplements, etc) we pour into the overflows; for larger volumes, we
pour or pump into the sump. I live in fear of dire warnings from
publications and LFS "experts" (?) about shocking the tank with
too-quick changes, so we try to make sure whatever goes into the
system hits the tank last.

Look into the RO/DI units. We live in an apartment, and it was neither
too expensive nor too challenging to install. Plus, it gets used for
drinking water as well, so it's turned out to be a bargain for us.

Good luck.


On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 05:06:30 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:

Well I did the water change today, about 30%. What a mess. I thought I'd
ask some "experienced" people's advice.

I have questions like:

Am I the only one using store bought water?!
What do you mix your new water in?
Do you sit there and stir or have extra powerheads doing the trick or is
there something I haven't thought of?
What's the best way to take the water from the container on the ground up to
the aquarium?

Here's a couple of things I didn't think about before I started. Thank
goodness there's nothing but snails and hermits right now.

1) I have Emperor 400's, when the water is too low they can't pull in the
water to circulate and aerate. This leads to one deadwater tank. I thought
maybe I should throw in air stones... is that what you guys do? Is stones
enough or do I need to have some filtration still working?

2) When I'm putting water back in (I lifted those 5 gallon water jugs) it
sure seemed like the flow from pouring might a bit rough on the rocks and
critters below once I get them. Yes I can sit there much longer and only
let the heavy jug slowly pour out, but there's gotta be another way. Can
you siphon uphill as easily?

Anyway, I've read a couple of things on the web but I don't have a sump,
refugium or a RO/DI connected nearby so I didn't get a lot of help. And
about those RO/DI's, do they have one that doesn't have to be plugged into
my plumbing? (small house, no basements in Texas and a decorator wife
wouldn't allow it). I'd like one that pulled water from one container into
another.

So what is your smooth water change technique?

Thanks for your time and advice,

Bryan
www.geocities.com/bryg30/ for setup details


=^..^=
.... the problem with people these days is that
they've forgotten we're really just animals.

thanks Sandbag, FYI, I have on the site that I do plan on a 2nd powerhead,
will get it later this week. I know my lack of the sump and skimming is
rather controversial but I've done some reading and have personally seen a
few big, beautiful and thriving tanks without them and I'm out to test it on
my own. I'm keeping close watch with test kits and do use a few chemicals
as noted originally. I'll be posting here how things proceed.

So far the hermits and snails are doing ok and seem happy. You're right,
before I ever toss more money, I do a lot of research.

Take care,
Bryan


"Sandbag" wrote in message
oups.com...
I buy store water because the amount I need compared to the cost of
RO/Di was to much. It may not be in your case. I got my first one for
130$ then upgraded after I moved and started using a larger sump.
www.airwaterice.com. Yes this has to be hooked up to the pluming. There
is a sadle tap for the main water and a drain valve for the RO
rejection. Buy the mini reef keeper model with a storage tank and
always, always fill your bottle up in the sink NOT on the FLOOR. It
trickles when you are watching it but a whole lot more seems to come
out when you are not watching it.

Dont worry about the time you are changing your water for
circulation.Unless you are taking hours..bad.. than there is nothing to
worry about.

Use on the the squeeze bulb siphons for the uphill battle. I used
chairs to make the siphoned water move faster over front of the tank.
http://www.petdiscounters.com/produc...cat=799&page=1

Then I got smart. I have a 35 gallon rubbermaid in the garage. I dump
all of my water in the tub, remixed and heated. Then I used a powerhead
with a line right into the tank.Works much fatser and no dripping on
the carpet. When you do this make sure you hold the line above your
head to make sure no stagnant water stays in the tube or gushes out
when puttin it away. As always watch out for the reverse siphon. NEVER
leave a tube from you tank to anything unless you are doing something
with it. Make it like painting..dont do anything other than this once
you get started.

BTW i just visited your site....No sump, No protien skimmer, and 1
power head. If you really want to have corals you need to read up on
the advatanges of circulation, aireation, and skimming. Also chemicals
and tesing are essential to starting a tank. This is a great forum for
questions but readup on the essentials before thowing money at your
tank. This can be a rewarding hobby and it can also be a depressing one
as well.
Patrick

Exotec,

Hey awesome summary. Which inexpensive RO/DI did you get? Maybe you can
tell me, why would I care about a 100 gpd versus a 35 gpd if I'm only doing
water changes every week or two? I can just turn it on sooner before I
start working. Also, if the water just goes in a bucket how do you collect
it for drinking? I'm not necessarily interested in the drinking aspect but
hey, if it's there and it tastes good, why not?

Only thing on my mind now after reading the three sets of help I've gotten
is how to turn the powerhead off in time when the water gets low in the
bucket or the aquarium is too full. A few seconds before pulling the plug
can mean wet carpet or a powerhead running in dry air. Then you have to run
up to the cord to stop the "siphon" effect. My plug isn't easy to quickly
jump to. Maybe I'll get a Clapper. haha
http://www.youcansave.com/clap.asp.

Bryan


"exotec" wrote in message
...
We have a RO/DI system, which really wasn't that expensive. We found
an old 25-gallon plastic barrel and washed it out exceptionally well,
and use this as a reservoir. The lid had to be cut out larger to
accomodate dropping in a powerhead, but we mix salt in the drum also
and let the powerhead run for an hour or so. Then we use the same
powerhead to uplift the water into a 5-gallon bucket. If we had a
longer piece of the appropriate size tubing, we'd just use that, and
pump directly into the tank system.

When we remove water for replacement, we take the powerhead from the
barrel and put it in the sump, then run a piece of tubing across the
counter into the kitchen sink. Have to use a twist-tie to attach the
"wild end" to the faucet if we don't want to wash the kitchen floor
the hard way.

And we never add anything directly to the tank. For small volumes
(supplements, etc) we pour into the overflows; for larger volumes, we
pour or pump into the sump. I live in fear of dire warnings from
publications and LFS "experts" (?) about shocking the tank with
too-quick changes, so we try to make sure whatever goes into the
system hits the tank last.

Look into the RO/DI units. We live in an apartment, and it was neither
too expensive nor too challenging to install. Plus, it gets used for
drinking water as well, so it's turned out to be a bargain for us.

Good luck.


On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 05:06:30 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:

Well I did the water change today, about 30%. What a mess. I thought I'd
ask some "experienced" people's advice.

I have questions like:

Am I the only one using store bought water?!
What do you mix your new water in?
Do you sit there and stir or have extra powerheads doing the trick or is
there something I haven't thought of?
What's the best way to take the water from the container on the ground up
to
the aquarium?

Here's a couple of things I didn't think about before I started. Thank
goodness there's nothing but snails and hermits right now.

1) I have Emperor 400's, when the water is too low they can't pull in the
water to circulate and aerate. This leads to one deadwater tank. I
thought
maybe I should throw in air stones... is that what you guys do? Is stones
enough or do I need to have some filtration still working?

2) When I'm putting water back in (I lifted those 5 gallon water jugs) it
sure seemed like the flow from pouring might a bit rough on the rocks and
critters below once I get them. Yes I can sit there much longer and only
let the heavy jug slowly pour out, but there's gotta be another way. Can
you siphon uphill as easily?

Anyway, I've read a couple of things on the web but I don't have a sump,
refugium or a RO/DI connected nearby so I didn't get a lot of help. And
about those RO/DI's, do they have one that doesn't have to be plugged into
my plumbing? (small house, no basements in Texas and a decorator wife
wouldn't allow it). I'd like one that pulled water from one container
into
another.

So what is your smooth water change technique?

Thanks for your time and advice,

Bryan
www.geocities.com/bryg30/ for setup details


=^..^=
... the problem with people these days is that
they've forgotten we're really just animals.

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 05:53:53 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:

You're right,
before I ever toss more money, I do a lot of research.

Hmm, picking up on that line, and I mean this in the kindest possible
way, but I'm confused why your research lead you to buy filters for
this tank. You could have saved the money. Was your research perhaps
limited to commerial sources of information, which can be biased? You
don't need those Emperor things for a reef and they may be harmful.
Your rock will do the job.

Steve

Bryan wrote:

Only thing on my mind now after reading the three sets of help I've gotten
is how to turn the powerhead off in time when the water gets low in the
bucket or the aquarium is too full.

It takes my powerhead less than five minutes to pump the water into my tank. I
usually have a few tank maintenance items to keep me happy while it's running,
but I don't go anywhere. If I did. the powerhead would sit there in the gallon
or two of water left in the can and churn it up.

Then you have to run
up to the cord to stop the "siphon" effect.

I set my can up about three feet from the tank. Everything is within easy reach.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:06:18 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:

Exotec,

Hey awesome summary. Which inexpensive RO/DI did you get?

Well, I'm kind of embarrassed -for some reason- to admit I'm an eBay
addict, and we get all kinds of stuff there for our various hobbies.
The water system came from a company called Aqua Safe, I think out of
Canada. The total outlay was somewhere in the vicinity of $100, which
seems like a pretty good bargain in this trade. If you do a search on
"aquasafe", you should come up with a string of his products. I
believe he's a regular seller there. In lieu of that (if he doesn't
have anything listed at the moment), I think I could dig up his
regular email address, given a little time for research.
Maybe you can
tell me, why would I care about a 100 gpd versus a 35 gpd if I'm only doing
water changes every week or two? I can just turn it on sooner before I
start working. Also, if the water just goes in a bucket how do you collect
it for drinking? I'm not necessarily interested in the drinking aspect but
hey, if it's there and it tastes good, why not?
The system we got actually came with a little holding tank, only about
2 gallons or so, and a tap - the kind you would see on a bar sink. We
hadn't intended to use the tap, but found space to install it and now
find we use it a lot.
Only thing on my mind now after reading the three sets of help I've gotten
is how to turn the powerhead off in time when the water gets low in the
bucket or the aquarium is too full. A few seconds before pulling the plug
can mean wet carpet or a powerhead running in dry air. Then you have to run
up to the cord to stop the "siphon" effect. My plug isn't easy to quickly
jump to.
Those are definite "issues"! We used to use the 5-gallon water bottles
from the grocery, but had many, many "spills" from forgetting to turn
the thing off and flooding the closet all the way down the hall. Then
we bought a little light and put it in there, so when we turned the
water on we also turned the light on to try to help us remember to
turn it off again. That also didn't work. So when the other fish geek
here found the barrel, he also managed to get a little float valve,
and now we have no more overflows.
I think the powerhead may be one of the sort that can run a little air
briefly. I'm thinking this is not good for it, no matter what ... but
so far it hasn't choked up its parts on us, so I guess it's okay. It
does run pretty fast. Doesn't take any time at all to pump out the
volume we need for a water change. I suppose if it was a matter of
completely filling a tank that might be a problem ... but the 10 or 20
gallons we use at a time isn't.
The time we have to be careful is in pumping the exchange water *out*
of the tank. But I just have the extension tie-wrapped to the leg of
the aquarium stand, and when I hear the pump start to suck air, I just
give its cord a yank. Since the business end of that operation is in
the sink, siphon doesn't apply. In the other direction, pumping new
water in, well, since we're pumping into the sump and not the tank, it
can only siphon what it's already put in. That can be annoying, but it
isn't a disaster. Besides, as stated, it takes virtually no time to
put the new water in. You can stand there and watch it for that long!
Maybe I'll get a Clapper. haha
http://www.youcansave.com/clap.asp.

Bryan


"exotec" wrote in message
.. .
We have a RO/DI system, which really wasn't that expensive. We found
an old 25-gallon plastic barrel and washed it out exceptionally well,
and use this as a reservoir. The lid had to be cut out larger to
accomodate dropping in a powerhead, but we mix salt in the drum also
and let the powerhead run for an hour or so. Then we use the same
powerhead to uplift the water into a 5-gallon bucket. If we had a
longer piece of the appropriate size tubing, we'd just use that, and
pump directly into the tank system.

When we remove water for replacement, we take the powerhead from the
barrel and put it in the sump, then run a piece of tubing across the
counter into the kitchen sink. Have to use a twist-tie to attach the
"wild end" to the faucet if we don't want to wash the kitchen floor
the hard way.

And we never add anything directly to the tank. For small volumes
(supplements, etc) we pour into the overflows; for larger volumes, we
pour or pump into the sump. I live in fear of dire warnings from
publications and LFS "experts" (?) about shocking the tank with
too-quick changes, so we try to make sure whatever goes into the
system hits the tank last.

Look into the RO/DI units. We live in an apartment, and it was neither
too expensive nor too challenging to install. Plus, it gets used for
drinking water as well, so it's turned out to be a bargain for us.

Good luck.


On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 05:06:30 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:

Well I did the water change today, about 30%. What a mess. I thought I'd
ask some "experienced" people's advice.

I have questions like:

Am I the only one using store bought water?!
What do you mix your new water in?
Do you sit there and stir or have extra powerheads doing the trick or is
there something I haven't thought of?
What's the best way to take the water from the container on the ground up
to
the aquarium?

Here's a couple of things I didn't think about before I started. Thank
goodness there's nothing but snails and hermits right now.

1) I have Emperor 400's, when the water is too low they can't pull in the
water to circulate and aerate. This leads to one deadwater tank. I
thought
maybe I should throw in air stones... is that what you guys do? Is stones
enough or do I need to have some filtration still working?

2) When I'm putting water back in (I lifted those 5 gallon water jugs) it
sure seemed like the flow from pouring might a bit rough on the rocks and
critters below once I get them. Yes I can sit there much longer and only
let the heavy jug slowly pour out, but there's gotta be another way. Can
you siphon uphill as easily?

Anyway, I've read a couple of things on the web but I don't have a sump,
refugium or a RO/DI connected nearby so I didn't get a lot of help. And
about those RO/DI's, do they have one that doesn't have to be plugged into
my plumbing? (small house, no basements in Texas and a decorator wife
wouldn't allow it). I'd like one that pulled water from one container
into
another.

So what is your smooth water change technique?

Thanks for your time and advice,

Bryan
www.geocities.com/bryg30/ for setup details


=^..^=
... the problem with people these days is that
they've forgotten we're really just animals.


=^..^=
.... the problem with people these days is that
they've forgotten we're really just animals.