Betta question

Köi-Lö wrote:
If you're really concerned about what is BEST for the fish then we need
to leave them in their NATURAL environment. No fishtank can come close
to that.

Again, you are wrong. Many fish species in the wild have shorter life
spans than in captivity.
Besides, we are not arguing over the morality of keeping fish, but on
how best to keep them. A larger tank will always be better.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
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"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Köi-Lö wrote:
If you're really concerned about what is BEST for the fish then we need
to leave them in their NATURAL environment. No fishtank can come close
to that.

Again, you are wrong. Many fish species in the wild have shorter life
spans than in captivity.

You're entitled to your opinion. No fish is going to have a better QUALITY
of life in the limited space of a fishtank than they achieve in their
natural habitat where they evolved. A LONG life is not necessarily a
"happy" or healthy life.

Besides, we are not arguing over the morality of keeping fish, but on how
best to keep them. A larger tank will always be better.

This I agree with. But nothing can be better than a fish's or animal's
natural habitat for the general welfare of the animal/fish/bird and it's
quality of life. A prime example are the cageless zoos and the reasons for
them.
--
KL.......
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Köi-Lö wrote:
You're entitled to your opinion.

Idem.

No fish is going to have a better
QUALITY of life in the limited space of a fishtank than they achieve in
their natural habitat where they evolved. A LONG life is not
necessarily a "happy" or healthy life.

Let's take a simple and common example, shall we? Cardinal tetras. In
the wild they have to forrage for food, escape predators, and then
suffocate in the dry season when their habitat dries up. In my little
tank they have no predators, get food twice a day and they have a life
expentance of several years.

This I agree with. But nothing can be better than a fish's or animal's
natural habitat for the general welfare of the animal/fish/bird and it's
quality of life. A prime example are the cageless zoos and the reasons
for them.

I think it's dangerous to make a generalization like that across species
as different as fish and mammals. For many species, living in the wild
is a daily struggle for survival.
In general, I am against imprisonment of higher species for our amusement.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:13:07 -0500, Victor Martinez
wrote:

Köi-Lö wrote:
You're entitled to your opinion.

Idem.

No fish is going to have a better
QUALITY of life in the limited space of a fishtank than they achieve in
their natural habitat where they evolved. A LONG life is not
necessarily a "happy" or healthy life.

Let's take a simple and common example, shall we? Cardinal tetras. In
the wild they have to forrage for food, escape predators, and then
suffocate in the dry season when their habitat dries up. In my little
tank they have no predators, get food twice a day and they have a life
expentance of several years.

This I agree with. But nothing can be better than a fish's or animal's
natural habitat for the general welfare of the animal/fish/bird and it's
quality of life. A prime example are the cageless zoos and the reasons
for them.

I think it's dangerous to make a generalization like that across species
as different as fish and mammals. For many species, living in the wild
is a daily struggle for survival.
In general, I am against imprisonment of higher species for our amusement.

The world would be better off without terrorists. How things might be
better is an endless list. What we each do is make the best of our
own situation.

If I only have a 1 gallon tank, then I do my best to not over crowd
it. However, if my life quality is improved by having the fish, I
find it relaxing in a hectic world, then the fish is doing something
important.

Animal rights must always be second to human needs. It is the way of
the world. I have been told my 10 gallon tank is too small for my 2
SAEs and 1 Clown Loach. I can find no difference in color nor
activity between them and those I have in a 75 gallon tank.

Do you have telepathy with your fish?

I feel sorry for my dogs when they rush the fence to chase rabbits. I
think they would be happier to run in the fields. There is a trade
off, fun for longevity.

Of course, it doesn't matter, I won't risk my happiness on the chance
they will be happier outside the fence. They seem happy with my
choice.

dick

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I feel sorry for my dogs when they rush the fence to chase rabbits. I
think they would be happier to run in the fields. There is a trade
off, fun for longevity.

Of course, it doesn't matter, I won't risk my happiness on the chance
they will be happier outside the fence. They seem happy with my
choice.
=================
Where cruelty and lack of quality of life come in is where dogs are kept in
such small pens they are living in their own feces. Some have little or no
shade. There were several recent cases where I live of dogs not even being
given water in this heat and humidity. One pup died before the woman (a
neighbor) could get help for the pup. The owner casually tossed it into the
garbage can.......
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Köi-Lö wrote:
You're entitled to your opinion.

Idem.

No fish is going to have a better
QUALITY of life in the limited space of a fishtank than they achieve in
their natural habitat where they evolved. A LONG life is not necessarily
a "happy" or healthy life.

Let's take a simple and common example, shall we? Cardinal tetras. In the
wild they have to forrage for food, escape predators, and then suffocate
in the dry season when their habitat dries up. In my little tank they have
no predators, get food twice a day and they have a life expentance of
several years.

Several years of WHAT though? Boredom? Again, think of the cageless zoo.
The animals that paced themselves into insanity in the zoos also lived much
longer than their wild brethren, but there was little quality to that extra
time.

This I agree with. But nothing can be better than a fish's or animal's
natural habitat for the general welfare of the animal/fish/bird and it's
quality of life. A prime example are the cageless zoos and the reasons
for them.

I think it's dangerous to make a generalization like that across species
as different as fish and mammals. For many species, living in the wild is
a daily struggle for survival.

That they are well suited to........ If they were not, they would have gone
extinct.

In general, I am against imprisonment of higher species for our amusement.

I am as well. I'm also very much against keeping birds in those small cages
most people buy and against lizards and snakes kept in tanks. I've seen
rabbits kept in tiny cages where they had hardly any room to lay down. I've
seen dogs kept in fenced pens so small that were wall to wall feces. And as
for fish. The death rate of those sold in pet shops is astronomical. Most
are dead within a few weeks due to ignorance and other reasons...... hardly
an improvement over nature.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Köi-Lö wrote:
Several years of WHAT though? Boredom?

I seriously doubt fish have enough brains to get bored.

Again, think of the cageless
zoo. The animals that paced themselves into insanity in the zoos also
lived much longer than their wild brethren, but there was little quality
to that extra time.

We're talking fish, not mammals.

That they are well suited to........ If they were not, they would have
gone extinct.

Who says they aren't in process of being extinct?

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Köi-Lö wrote:
Several years of WHAT though? Boredom?

I seriously doubt fish have enough brains to get bored.

But we can't know that. I've seen fish swim mindlessly up and down the
corner of a tank - just like the pacing animals in the old zoos.

Again, think of the cageless zoo. The animals that paced themselves into
insanity in the zoos also lived much longer than their wild brethren, but
there was little quality to that extra time.

We're talking fish, not mammals.

Fish have brains. They're not houseplants. ;-) See above. I had one
betta that was clearly going stir-bugs in a 2g display tank. He'd swim
aimlessly back and forth from one end of the tank to the other, about 2"
above the gravel... over and over and over,...back and forth.... little
difference between that and the caged bird that sways back and forth by the
hour. Or the big cat that paces endlessly from one end of it's cage to the
other.

That they are well suited to........ If they were not, they would have
gone extinct.

Who says they aren't in process of being extinct?

Who says *we're* not in the process of going extinct? ;-)
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Victor Martinez wrote:


Let's take a simple and common example, shall we? Cardinal tetras. In
the wild they have to forrage for food, escape predators, and then
suffocate in the dry season when their habitat dries up. In my little
tank they have no predators, get food twice a day and they have a life
expentance of several years.

I think it's dangerous to make a generalization like that across species
as different as fish and mammals. For many species, living in the wild
is a daily struggle for survival.
In general, I am against imprisonment of higher species for our amusement.

Oh Victor....GREAT example. Cardinals (neons too)!
In the wild, they are considred "annual" fish. This is because they
only live about a year, IF they don't get eaten or die of disease.
However, in a tank they live for many years.
Can't even compare.

Köi-Lö wrote:


Besides, we are not arguing over the morality of keeping fish, but on how
best to keep them. A larger tank will always be better.

This I agree with. But nothing can be better than a fish's or animal's
natural habitat for the general welfare of the animal/fish/bird and it's
quality of life. A prime example are the cageless zoos and the reasons for

Ok....but you just said in another post that Bettas are fine bowls or
jars.
They aren't.