Denitrators

I was doing some searching and reading on various aquaria realted stuff
last night and came across these plans for a 'coil denitrator'

http://saltaquarium.about.com/librar...itratornew.htm

As you can see from the domain, it is in the salt water section of
about.com. If you click on the thumbnail pictures of the plans, you can
see each page of the article (I hate the layout of about.com BTW).

Do these things "work?" That is, doesn't the nitrate have to turn into
something?! What is the waste product of the de nitrifying bacteria?
Wouldn't the TDS levels still rise? If so, doesn't this mean water
changes are still vital? If you are the type of person that only
changes water when the things you test for change (rise in nitrates,
nitrites blah blah blah) then I can see this just disguising the need
to do water changes. Am I making any sense?

Of course I would never DREAM of slacking on my water changes (before
MG says something)

Adam wrote:

Do these things "work?" That is, doesn't the nitrate have to turn into
something?

I don't know how they work, but the goal is to turn the nitrates (NO3) into
gaseous nitrogen and oxygen.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Adam" wrote in message ps.com...
Do these things "work?" That is, doesn't the nitrate have to turn into
something?! What is the waste product of the de nitrifying bacteria?

Yes, they do work, but having a properly working sand bed
will do the same in a more biological way...
I have more problems with phosphates than nitrates in my tanks.

You should not need to do a water change on a properly set
up reef tank because of nitrates. Your live rock and live
sand should be taking care of that.

The end product of a denitrator is N2 the oxygen in NO3 is
taken away converting the NO3 into NO2, and the oxygen
from NO2 is taken away converting it into N2.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Adam wrote on 9/14/2006 8:53 AM:
I was doing some searching and reading on various aquaria realted stuff
last night and came across these plans for a 'coil denitrator'

http://saltaquarium.about.com/librar...itratornew.htm

As you can see from the domain, it is in the salt water section of
about.com. If you click on the thumbnail pictures of the plans, you can
see each page of the article (I hate the layout of about.com BTW).

Do these things "work?" That is, doesn't the nitrate have to turn into
something?! What is the waste product of the de nitrifying bacteria?
Wouldn't the TDS levels still rise? If so, doesn't this mean water
changes are still vital? If you are the type of person that only
changes water when the things you test for change (rise in nitrates,
nitrites blah blah blah) then I can see this just disguising the need
to do water changes. Am I making any sense?

Of course I would never DREAM of slacking on my water changes (before
MG says something)

Do these things "work?"

Why do you think you need one?

That is, doesn't the nitrate have to turn into
something?!

Yes N2 and H2O via denitrifying bacteria present in your live rock.

See:
http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquarium...d=3793&search=

What is the waste product of the de nitrifying bacteria?

N2 and H2O.

Wouldn't the TDS levels still rise? If so, doesn't this mean water
changes are still vital?

Contrary to popular marine aquarium lore, you DO NOT NEED to do partial
water changes. My nitrites and nitrates are UNDETECTABLE using store
bought LFS test kits. I have not done a water change in over a year (very
close to two).

If you are the type of person that only changes water when the things you
test for change (rise in nitrates,
nitrites blah blah blah) then I can see this just disguising the need
to do water changes. Am I making any sense?

"...disguising the need to do water changes." ...hmm If something
causes your nitrites and nitrates to be very low than why would you NEED to
do a water change? Just for fun?

Of course I would never DREAM of slacking on my water changes (before
MG says something)

Stop following the herd!

I don't know how they work, but the goal is to turn the nitrates (NO3)
into gaseous nitrogen and oxygen.

wrong. N2 and H2O

2NO3- + 12H+ -----(enzymatic)----- N2 + 6H2O



George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message m...
I don't know how they work, but the goal is to turn the nitrates (NO3)
into gaseous nitrogen and oxygen.

wrong. N2 and H2O

2NO3- + 12H+ -----(enzymatic)----- N2 + 6H2O

And how did you get 12H+ on your left side ?

"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message ...
Contrary to popular marine aquarium lore, you DO NOT NEED to do partial
water changes. My nitrites and nitrates are UNDETECTABLE using store
bought LFS test kits. I have not done a water change in over a year (very
close to two).
[...]
"...disguising the need to do water changes." ...hmm If something
causes your nitrites and nitrates to be very low than why would you NEED
to do a water change? Just for fun?

So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-... With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.
You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

-- "Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message
m...
I don't know how they work, but the goal is to turn the nitrates (NO3)
into gaseous nitrogen and oxygen.

wrong. N2 and H2O

2NO3- + 12H+ -----(enzymatic)----- N2 + 6H2O

And how did you get 12H+ on your left side ?

The above equation is the overall reduction of nitrate to nitrogen gas and
water. It is an enzymatic reaction that involves the enzyme nitrate
reductase (among others). The H+ that you are questioning are picked up
from general acids from within the enzyme's active site (i.e. histidine
residues).

[...]
"...disguising the need to do water changes." ...hmm If something
causes your nitrites and nitrates to be very low than why would you NEED
to do a water change? Just for fun?


So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

This is called setting up a "straw man". No. I am not saying this at all.


You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?