Denitrators

Stoutman wrote:

wrong. N2 and H2O

Where's the hydrogen come from? You can split two NO3 molecules into one N2 and
three O2 molecules.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message m...
So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

This is called setting up a "straw man".
No. I am not saying this at all.

You were questioning the reason to change water
based on nitrates...

You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

Then you are probably aware also, that 80% of their
levels you cannot measure at home acuratelly.

With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

Each element is used up in a different speed, but you dump
all of them on a monthly basis regardless if you need it or not.
That will lead over time to chemical imbalance and your tank
water will be far, far away from the content of natural sea water
compared to the water mixed from the fresh salt mix.

You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?

All these which make your water smell and look yellow.
Corals, other invertebrates, fish and plants constantly
release many substances to the water which accumulate
in the closed system like an aquarium. You are not able
to measure them or detect them in home situation...
Changing water refreshes the water and brings it back
to its original ionic combination...

Would you be fine if your house was perfectly sealed
from the outside air and you just reduce amount of
CO2 and add oxygen on regular basis but would not
exchange air for years? How do you think your house
would smell ? :-))

Adam wrote:

Do these things "work?" That is, doesn't the nitrate have to turn into
something?! What is the waste product of the de nitrifying bacteria?

A web search turns up several articles. Basically, the denitrator is a bacterial
filter that contains cultures of bacteria that eat oxygen. These bacteria remove
the oxygen from the NO3, producing free nitrogen as a byproduct.

See http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Den...tructions.html

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Stoutman wrote on 9/15/2006 9:52 PM:
Contrary to popular marine aquarium lore, you DO NOT NEED to do partial
water changes. My nitrites and nitrates are UNDETECTABLE using store
bought LFS test kits. I have not done a water change in over a year (very
close to two).


LOL this is a reef newsgroup, not a fish only newsgroup.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Pszemol wrote on 9/16/2006 9:20 AM:
"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message
m...
So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

This is called setting up a "straw man".
No. I am not saying this at all.

You were questioning the reason to change water
based on nitrates...

You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

Then you are probably aware also, that 80% of their
levels you cannot measure at home acuratelly.

With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

Each element is used up in a different speed, but you dump
all of them on a monthly basis regardless if you need it or not.
That will lead over time to chemical imbalance and your tank
water will be far, far away from the content of natural sea water
compared to the water mixed from the fresh salt mix.

You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?

All these which make your water smell and look yellow.
Corals, other invertebrates, fish and plants constantly
release many substances to the water which accumulate
in the closed system like an aquarium. You are not able
to measure them or detect them in home situation...
Changing water refreshes the water and brings it back
to its original ionic combination...
Would you be fine if your house was perfectly sealed
from the outside air and you just reduce amount of
CO2 and add oxygen on regular basis but would not
exchange air for years? How do you think your house would smell ? :-))

hehehe yep, and while he's at it, Stoutman can do away
with the toilet, just use a can, and stop taking showers :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Stoutman wrote on 9/16/2006 3:28 AM:
I add trace elements (Kent Marine *Essential* Elements) on a monthly basis.




heheheheheheh

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

wrong. N2 and H2O

Where's the hydrogen come from?

See my response to Pszemol.

You can split two NO3 molecules into one N2 and three O2 molecules.

Who/what can? The NO3 is broken down enzymatically. The enzyme(s) do not
split NO3 into N2 and O2.


George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

--
You were questioning the reason to change water
based on nitrates...

I am not questioning anything, I am answering Adam's (the OP) question. See
above in the thread.


You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

Then you are probably aware also, that 80% of their
levels you cannot measure at home acuratelly.

80% of what levels? Can you be more specific? Doesn't how accurate you
need to be depend on the ion you are referring to?


With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

Each element is used up in a different speed, but you dump
all of them on a monthly basis regardless if you need it or not.

How do you replenish your trace elements? Partial water change? When you
do your partial water change you are removing some percentage of water
(15-20%?) and adding artificial sea salt (usually contains trace elements).
How do you know your tank needs it (trace elements)?

That will lead over time to chemical imbalance and your tank
water will be far, far away from the content of natural sea water
compared to the water mixed from the fresh salt mix.

You are FAR MORE likely to cause a chemical imbalance by replacing a
percentage (15-20%?) of your aquarium water with home made sea water than
you are by doing no water change.



You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?

All these which make your water smell and look yellow.
Corals, other invertebrates, fish and plants constantly
release many substances to the water which accumulate
in the closed system like an aquarium.

My skimmer runs 24hrs a day. The organic compounds it doesn't remove on the
first pass will more than likely be removed on the second, third, fourth or
fifth, etc. pass.

You are not able to measure them or detect them in home situation...

Agreed. Therefore, I have NO reason to question my skimmers effectiveness.
I can only go by the health/appearance of my tank mates. They are doing
fine. All is well. My water is not yellow and it does not smell.

Changing water refreshes the water and brings it back
to its original ionic combination...


The only way YOU would "bring it back to its original" condition is if you
changed 100% of your water. Is this what you are doing? If this is what
you are doing you are doing more harm than good.


Would you be fine if your house was perfectly sealed
from the outside air and you just reduce amount of
CO2 and add oxygen on regular basis but would not
exchange air for years?

Another straw man.

How do you think your house would smell ? :-))

I do not have microorganisms that eat and decompose my excrements, my
aquarium inhabitants do.

LOL this is a reef newsgroup, not a fish only newsgroup.

That's right, I have a FOWLR tank, nevertheless, my comments are still
applicable.

A web search turns up several articles. Basically, the denitrator is a
bacterial filter that contains cultures of bacteria that eat oxygen. These
bacteria remove the oxygen from the NO3, producing free nitrogen as a
byproduct.

So very wrong, but so close. The denitrator sets up an anaerobic
environment (oxygen depleted) for the bacteria to thrive that break down
NO3-, it's called denitrification. These anaerobic bacteria contain enzymes
that break down NO3- into N2 and H2O.




See http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Den...tructions.html

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.