CO2 and anabantids

Just a quick question.

I've got a planted seven gallon tank, cycled, with a male betta, 2
cherry barbs, and two corydoras trileanatus. I've been toying with the
idea of setting up a basic DIY 2 liter yeast reactor, as my plants
(some anachris, a red tiger lotus, and some didiplus) are doing ok,
but not much more better than that.

I've done my research. I have fairly hard water tap water that tests
out in the 1.2-1.3 range with slightly above neutral Ph, so I'm not
worried about buffer crashes. But since I'm just bubbling the CO2
straight to the surface and not into a diffuser, I'm worried that a
surface buildup might harm my surface breather. The hood on this tank
is vented. Will that be enough to keep CO2 above the water surface
from reaching toxic concentrations?

Thanks for any help.

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:49:19 -0700, southpaw wrote:

I've done my research. I have fairly hard water tap water that tests
out in the 1.2-1.3 range

E.C that is. *smacks forehead*

southpaw wrote in news:nfi6h2d9r6k73saljdpao6l3smgbg1ptgu@
4ax.com:

straight to the surface and not into a diffuser, I'm worried that a
surface buildup might harm my surface breather. The hood on this tank
is vented. Will that be enough to keep CO2 above the water surface
from reaching toxic concentrations?

I imagine your fish will be fine.

Sugar yeast mixes work, but they don't exactly rocket out CO2. If your hood
is ventilated well it should be enough to diffuse CO2 into the ambient
atmosphere. Though CO2 is denser than air so it may not diffuse all that
quickly.

All that said I don't think your sugar yeast reactor will be generating
enough CO2 for what becomes trapped beneath your hood to become a problem.
Since your not using a diffuser most of the CO2 getting into your water
will be due to what is sitting under your hood anyway--trying to avoid any
CO2 surface build-up may scrub your whole effort of using CO2 entirely.
Without a diffuser or a ladder the bubbles just aren't in the water long
enough to make a major impact in and of themselves.

Keep in mind that while Bettas may be able to obtain oxygen from the air
they will rely on their gills when adequate dissolved oxygen is available
in the water. So if the CO2 levels become a problem you will be able to
measure it in your water via your pH shift after the reactor mix starts
working.

Your first indication of a problem may be your Corydoras skimming the
surface--though not as efficient as the labyrinth equipped Betta they too
can get oxygen from the air using their swim bladder.

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:49:19 -0500, southpaw wrote
(in article ):

Just a quick question.

I've got a planted seven gallon tank, cycled, with a male betta, 2
cherry barbs, and two corydoras trileanatus. I've been toying with the
idea of setting up a basic DIY 2 liter yeast reactor, as my plants
(some anachris, a red tiger lotus, and some didiplus) are doing ok,
but not much more better than that.

I've done my research. I have fairly hard water tap water that tests
out in the 1.2-1.3 range with slightly above neutral Ph, so I'm not
worried about buffer crashes. But since I'm just bubbling the CO2
straight to the surface and not into a diffuser, I'm worried that a
surface buildup might harm my surface breather. The hood on this tank
is vented. Will that be enough to keep CO2 above the water surface
from reaching toxic concentrations?

Thanks for any help.

Seven gallons? Just be patient. If your plants are growing at all, it won't
take them long to fill the entire tank. Also, are you maxed out on light? I
takes quite a bit of light to get to the point where using CO2 could help.

-E

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:32:05 GMT, Eric wrote:

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:49:19 -0500, southpaw wrote
(in article ):

Just a quick question.

I've got a planted seven gallon tank, cycled, with a male betta, 2
cherry barbs, and two corydoras trileanatus. I've been toying with the
idea of setting up a basic DIY 2 liter yeast reactor, as my plants
(some anachris, a red tiger lotus, and some didiplus) are doing ok,
but not much more better than that.

I've done my research. I have fairly hard water tap water that tests
out in the 1.2-1.3 range with slightly above neutral Ph, so I'm not
worried about buffer crashes. But since I'm just bubbling the CO2
straight to the surface and not into a diffuser, I'm worried that a
surface buildup might harm my surface breather. The hood on this tank
is vented. Will that be enough to keep CO2 above the water surface
from reaching toxic concentrations?

Thanks for any help.

Seven gallons? Just be patient. If your plants are growing at all, it won't
take them long to fill the entire tank. Also, are you maxed out on light? I
takes quite a bit of light to get to the point where using CO2 could help.

-E


Thanks for the responses. Yeah I kind of figured that for a tank this
small CO2 of any kind is bordering on overkill. Bottom line, the
second I see anything like abnormal fish behavior I'll ditch the idea.
Is there any benefit to short term CO2 use just to give plants a
boost? Or does that just result in a die off when the CO2 is cut off?
Plus I imagine the possible Ph swing makes this a bad idea also.

Thanks again.

southpaw wrote in
:

Thanks for the responses. Yeah I kind of figured that for a tank this
small CO2 of any kind is bordering on overkill. Bottom line, the

Consider Flourish Excel by Seachem as an alternative. It is an organic
carbon compound and substitutes for CO2 in photosynthesis. It will not
affect your pH and will not harm your fish if you dose appropriately. A
500 ml bottle should last you a good while and give your plants the boost
you're after.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 00:45:03 -0500, dc wrote:

southpaw wrote in
:

Thanks for the responses. Yeah I kind of figured that for a tank this
small CO2 of any kind is bordering on overkill. Bottom line, the

Consider Flourish Excel by Seachem as an alternative. It is an organic
carbon compound and substitutes for CO2 in photosynthesis. It will not
affect your pH and will not harm your fish if you dose appropriately. A
500 ml bottle should last you a good while and give your plants the boost
you're after.

Very interesting product. Aquariumguys.com might get another 10 bucks
out of me... : )

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:49:19 -0700, southpaw wrote:

Just a quick question.

I've got a planted seven gallon tank, cycled, with a male betta, 2
cherry barbs, and two corydoras trileanatus. I've been toying with the
idea of setting up a basic DIY 2 liter yeast reactor, as my plants
(some anachris, a red tiger lotus, and some didiplus) are doing ok,
but not much more better than that.

I've done my research. I have fairly hard water tap water that tests
out in the 1.2-1.3 range with slightly above neutral Ph, so I'm not
worried about buffer crashes. But since I'm just bubbling the CO2
straight to the surface and not into a diffuser, I'm worried that a
surface buildup might harm my surface breather. The hood on this tank
is vented. Will that be enough to keep CO2 above the water surface
from reaching toxic concentrations?

Thanks for any help.
I have around 10-12 gourami in my tank which has pressurised CO2
bringing the pH down from around 7.7 to 6.2, so there's a lot of CO2
being disolved, and they're showing no signs of distress, and they
still take a gulp of 'air' now and then.
Each of my 2 reactors is disolving around 8 bubbles/sec, a little does
escape, so there's probably a bit of a layer of CO2 above the water.

There's no point in letting the CO2 just bubble to the surface, you're
probably losing about 99% that way - no bubbles should actually reach
the surface, they should disolve before they get to the top.
Use a reactor or diffuser of some kind.

Wild gourami use their labyrinth to store air when the water in their
native environment is so poor that it can't hold oxygen. But their
gills provide sufficient oxygen in normal water.
Some live in little more than large muddy puddles.

Good luck
Pete

Pete wrote:
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:49:19 -0700, southpaw wrote:

Just a quick question.

I've got a planted seven gallon tank, cycled, with a male betta, 2
cherry barbs, and two corydoras trileanatus. I've been toying with the
idea of setting up a basic DIY 2 liter yeast reactor, as my plants
(some anachris, a red tiger lotus, and some didiplus) are doing ok,
but not much more better than that.

I've done my research. I have fairly hard water tap water that tests
out in the 1.2-1.3 range with slightly above neutral Ph, so I'm not
worried about buffer crashes. But since I'm just bubbling the CO2
straight to the surface and not into a diffuser, I'm worried that a
surface buildup might harm my surface breather. The hood on this tank
is vented. Will that be enough to keep CO2 above the water surface
from reaching toxic concentrations?

Thanks for any help.
I have around 10-12 gourami in my tank which has pressurised CO2
bringing the pH down from around 7.7 to 6.2, so there's a lot of CO2
being disolved, and they're showing no signs of distress, and they
still take a gulp of 'air' now and then.
Each of my 2 reactors is disolving around 8 bubbles/sec, a little does
escape, so there's probably a bit of a layer of CO2 above the water.

There's no point in letting the CO2 just bubble to the surface, you're
probably losing about 99% that way - no bubbles should actually reach
the surface, they should disolve before they get to the top.
Use a reactor or diffuser of some kind.

Wild gourami use their labyrinth to store air when the water in their
native environment is so poor that it can't hold oxygen. But their
gills provide sufficient oxygen in normal water.
Some live in little more than large muddy puddles.

Good luck
Pete

Gouramis and bettas don't "store" air in their labyrinth organs. They
use them like we use our lungs.
It's a secondary means of getting oxygen. Mainly, they get it through
the water via their gills. When it's depleated, they get it from the
surface via their labyrinth.
Now, they always must be able to get to the surface, no matter how well
oxygenated the water is, or they will drown!
This is a fact.

On 22 Sep 2006 09:27:21 -0700, "Tynk" wrote:


There's no point in letting the CO2 just bubble to the surface, you're
probably losing about 99% that way - no bubbles should actually reach
the surface, they should disolve before they get to the top.
Use a reactor or diffuser of some kind.

Is a diffuser necessary in a smaller tank? Right now I'm running the
Co2 through an airstone, and the Ph only dropped from 7.3-7.4 to
neutral. I'm thinking maneuvering the airstone closer to the filter
intake tomorrow might be a good idea. What are some DIY mini diffuser
designs?


Wild gourami use their labyrinth to store air when the water in their
native environment is so poor that it can't hold oxygen. But their
gills provide sufficient oxygen in normal water.
Some live in little more than large muddy puddles.

Good luck
Pete

Gouramis and bettas don't "store" air in their labyrinth organs. They
use them like we use our lungs.
It's a secondary means of getting oxygen. Mainly, they get it through
the water via their gills. When it's depleated, they get it from the
surface via their labyrinth.
Now, they always must be able to get to the surface, no matter how well
oxygenated the water is, or they will drown!
This is a fact.

No signs of stress from anyone in the tank.