Booger flicking

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message ...
I realize that one will have a faster rate than the other. My point is it
doesn't matter because they all are moving in the same direction, just with
different rates.

If the consumption of certain ions is slower than the replenishment
rate than you could keep up with water changes...

They also only say "limit". How much is it limited by?
It could be only 2-5%.

Or 80% - it will depend on the rate of the water change
and the amount of consumption of ions by your corals...

Oh, right - you do not have corals! :-)))
What do you do in the *reef* forum than ?

I realize that one will have a faster rate than the other. My point is
it doesn't matter because they all are moving in the same direction, just
with different rates.

If the consumption of certain ions is slower than the replenishment
rate than you could keep up with water changes...

Lets look at it again:

"Water changes of approximately 10 to 25% monthly help to limit the
long-term change in the ionic composition of seawater in a closed system
aquarium."

The water changes help to LIMIT not PREVENT changes in ionic composition.
Why are you having a problem with this?

"Limit" could mean anything. It could be limit by 1%, 2%, 3%. We don't
know do we?


They also only say "limit". How much is it limited by?
It could be only 2-5%.

Or 80% - it will depend on the rate of the water change
and the amount of consumption of ions by your corals...

I really doubt it's as high as 80%.


Oh, right - you do not have corals! :-)))
What do you do in the *reef* forum than ?

To help you people. Especially YOU.

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message ...
Oh, right - you do not have corals! :-)))
What do you do in the *reef* forum than ?

To help you people. Especially YOU.

Who asked you for help here ? Show me!

Why do you teach people how to have successful
reef tanks if you have no experience with one?

And why are you so bothered with people changing
water in their tanks ? Its their tanks, their water.
They pay for it! Why do you think it is your business?

bo0ger1 wrote:

The water changes help to LIMIT not PREVENT changes in ionic composition.

Booger,

Let me see if I understand your logic. You recommend against water
changes because they limit but do not eliminate certain problems with
water degradation. By analogy, can we assume the following?

1. You recommend smoking since quitting limits but doesn't eliminate
the chance of lung cancer.

2. You recommend fatty foods because a healthy diet limits but doesn't
eliminate the chance of heart disease.

3. You recommend ignoring traffic laws because adherence to them limits
but does not eliminate the chance of an accident.

4. You recommend running with scissors because not doing so limits but
does not eliminate the chance of stabbing yourself.

5. You recommend hunting with Dick Cheney since avoiding him limits but
doesn't eliminate the chance of getting shot.

Oddly enough, I don't totally disagree with the idea that water changes
aren't always necessary (just as I sometimes drive fast while eating a
cheeseburger). OTOH: The people who keep reef type aquariums without
changing water are few and far between and they tend to be quite
sophisticated in their understanding of what's going on in their
system. Further, such people are using a combination of filtration and
bio-load tailored to their (non) water change regime. For everyone else
water changing is the easiest way to insure that trace elements are
maintained and trace toxins are removed.

Your posts imply that water changes can simply be stopped; without
regard to any other system considerations. Given that many of the
people reading this forum are relative newcomers to reefkeeping it is
irresponsible of you to make such claims. This is especially true in
light of the fact that you have apparently chosen to not keep those
animals (mainly cnidarians) which are most sensitive to water quality
and to which this forum is dedicated.


Changeably yours,

Alex

Well done! Nicely put!

rtk


Tidepool Geek wrote:
bo0ger1 wrote:

The water changes help to LIMIT not PREVENT changes in ionic composition.


Booger,

Let me see if I understand your logic. You recommend against water
changes because they limit but do not eliminate certain problems with
water degradation. By analogy, can we assume the following?

1. You recommend smoking since quitting limits but doesn't eliminate
the chance of lung cancer.

2. You recommend fatty foods because a healthy diet limits but doesn't
eliminate the chance of heart disease.

3. You recommend ignoring traffic laws because adherence to them limits
but does not eliminate the chance of an accident.

4. You recommend running with scissors because not doing so limits but
does not eliminate the chance of stabbing yourself.

5. You recommend hunting with Dick Cheney since avoiding him limits but
doesn't eliminate the chance of getting shot.

Oddly enough, I don't totally disagree with the idea that water changes
aren't always necessary (just as I sometimes drive fast while eating a
cheeseburger). OTOH: The people who keep reef type aquariums without
changing water are few and far between and they tend to be quite
sophisticated in their understanding of what's going on in their
system. Further, such people are using a combination of filtration and
bio-load tailored to their (non) water change regime. For everyone else
water changing is the easiest way to insure that trace elements are
maintained and trace toxins are removed.

Your posts imply that water changes can simply be stopped; without
regard to any other system considerations. Given that many of the
people reading this forum are relative newcomers to reefkeeping it is
irresponsible of you to make such claims. This is especially true in
light of the fact that you have apparently chosen to not keep those
animals (mainly cnidarians) which are most sensitive to water quality
and to which this forum is dedicated.


Changeably yours,

Alex

Booger,

Let me see if I understand your logic. You recommend against water
changes because they limit but do not eliminate certain problems with
water degradation. By analogy, can we assume the following?

No. I recommend against water changes because they are NOT necessary.
Furthermore it puts undue stress on your inhabitants.

SNIP nonsense


Oddly enough, I don't totally disagree with the idea that water changes
aren't always necessary (just as I sometimes drive fast while eating a
cheeseburger). OTOH: The people who keep reef type aquariums without
changing water are few and far between and they tend to be quite
sophisticated in their understanding of what's going on in their
system.

??

Further, such people are using a combination of filtration and
bio-load tailored to their (non) water change regime.

Really? Not me.

For everyone else water changing is the easiest way to insure that trace
elements are
maintained and trace toxins are removed.

The easiest way is NOT always the best way.

Based on your logic can I conclude the following?

1) You sleep in your clothes and wear the same thing the next day because it
is easier.
2) You do ALL of your shopping over the internet
3) You eat out for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
4) You only shower once a month.

Your posts imply that water changes can simply be stopped;

My posts don't imply that water changes can be stopped, they flat out state
that water changes can be stopped.


without regard to any other system considerations.

Other system conditions? I wouldn't stop water changes without adequate
live rock or a functioning skimmer.

Given that many of the people reading this forum are relative newcomers to
reefkeeping it is
irresponsible of you to make such claims.

I think it is irresponsible of you to imply that water changes are
absolutely necessary when they most definitely are not with a properly set
up marine aquarium.

This is especially true in light of the fact that you have apparently
chosen to not keep those
animals (mainly cnidarians) which are most sensitive to water quality
and to which this forum is dedicated.

Anemones are VERY sensitive to water conditions. Mine is doing awesome.


Changeably yours,

Alex

"bo0ger1" .@. wrote in message ...
Anemones are VERY sensitive to water conditions. Mine is doing awesome.

What species anemone do you have ?

bo0ger1 wrote on 11/15/2006 6:26 PM:

No. I recommend against water changes because they are NOT necessary.
Furthermore it puts undue stress on your inhabitants.

The only time it puts undue stress on inhabitants is when
someone does not know how to make salt water.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Wayne Sallee wrote:


The only time it puts undue stress on inhabitants is when someone does
not know how to make salt water.


Speaking of which:
I add 3 cups of salt to 6 gallons of water, leave a small
heater and pump in the bucket, check the salt level after a
couple days, but let it churn away the remaining days until
the weekly change. Doing such a small amount (for a 55
gallon tank) is so hassle free. I don't have to run the
water down to the basement drain or outside as I do my
turtle tank and I don't have to guess at the percentage by
the level of water in the tank. Just fill a bucket and
replace a bucket.

rtk