Could my Sg be impacting my Star Polyps?

Hi all,

Around 3 weeks ago I bought some green star polyps - looked great in the
LFS - got them home and they didn't thrive....some came out but they
never fulfilled their potential....tried every position in the tank and
every flow option but no go....So I spoke to the LFS today and they
agreed to take them back....they checked them out and believe that they
look healthy and viable....and exchanged them for another "thriving"
colony...now it looks like I'm going through the same thing again - some
polyps extended after an hour or two but then retracted and now no
action at all....

Water tests out as follows so it does not seem to be a quality issue:-

Temp 27C - a little warm I know
Sg is 1.026
pH is 8.4
Alk - high end of normal
Calcium 500
NO2 is 0
NO3 is 0
Ammonia is 0
PO4 is 0.25

Tank is a 15 gall/60 Litre with LR, a Protein Skimmer and 2 Power Heads
(can't remember the exact spec of both but one does 550L/h) - there is
plenty of water movement.

The lights are maybe not as good as the LFS lights but they didn't seem
to think this would be an issue with Star Polyps but suggested I swopped
the T8s for T5s at some point - the lighting is currently 3 Watts per
gallon with no room for further tubes.

The only thing that did come up in conversation with the guy at the LFS
is that their Sg is 1.023. I'm wondering if this might be the cause of
my problems.....as I'm currently only stocking with stuff I'm buying
from them I'm thinking that I should try reducing my Sg to the same as
theirs....what does everyone think?

Gill

Your temp is not the problem. It's probably your lights.
How much lighting do you have? Have you tried making a
large water change to see if that helps? Have you verified
to make sure that your hydrometer is measuring correctly?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Gill Passman wrote on 11/16/2006 6:53 PM:
Hi all,

Around 3 weeks ago I bought some green star polyps - looked great in the
LFS - got them home and they didn't thrive....some came out but they
never fulfilled their potential....tried every position in the tank and
every flow option but no go....So I spoke to the LFS today and they
agreed to take them back....they checked them out and believe that they
look healthy and viable....and exchanged them for another "thriving"
colony...now it looks like I'm going through the same thing again - some
polyps extended after an hour or two but then retracted and now no
action at all....

Water tests out as follows so it does not seem to be a quality issue:-

Temp 27C - a little warm I know
Sg is 1.026
pH is 8.4
Alk - high end of normal
Calcium 500
NO2 is 0
NO3 is 0
Ammonia is 0
PO4 is 0.25

Tank is a 15 gall/60 Litre with LR, a Protein Skimmer and 2 Power Heads
(can't remember the exact spec of both but one does 550L/h) - there is
plenty of water movement.

The lights are maybe not as good as the LFS lights but they didn't seem
to think this would be an issue with Star Polyps but suggested I swopped
the T8s for T5s at some point - the lighting is currently 3 Watts per
gallon with no room for further tubes.

The only thing that did come up in conversation with the guy at the LFS
is that their Sg is 1.023. I'm wondering if this might be the cause of
my problems.....as I'm currently only stocking with stuff I'm buying
from them I'm thinking that I should try reducing my Sg to the same as
theirs....what does everyone think?

Gill

Wayne Sallee wrote:
Your temp is not the problem. It's probably your lights. How much
lighting do you have? Have you tried making a large water change to see
if that helps? Have you verified to make sure that your hydrometer is
measuring correctly?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




The capnella, button polyps, mushrooms and xenia are all doing fine
under the lighting (although I am sensitive to the need to maximise
this) - the LFS do not think that the lights are the issue....certainly
a move to T5s can be done easily...there is not sufficient clearance to
put in halides - the tank is in the kitchen....I currently have 3 T8
flourescents giving 3W per gall....not the best but from my
understanding should be sufficient for the Star Polyps as well as the
other soft corals that I have. I deliberately am not purchasing anything
with high light requirements - I'll save them until I convert another
larger tank and can add the halides. Now, one thing on the lighting is
that the Star Polyps in question were kept in the tank with the halides
at the LFS - and I have asked over and over if that might be the issue -
ie. they are struggling to acclimatize to my lower level of lights and
keep getting the answer "no" - right now they swapped the first colony
for another (slightly more expensive) colony so I'm not losing but I
just don't like not seeing any creature in my care not thriving.

The hydrometer is calibrated to 25C so there is some degree of
inaccuracy....it's a very basic swingometer type of thing (Red Sea) -
I'm thinking maybe I should get something a bit more sophisticated....it
tends to stick if left in the water for any length of time and needs a
good rinse before I would even start to trust it (I think this was the
first lesson I learnt when I originally set up the tank prior to adding
anything other than water and salt).

I made a 15% water change yesterday morning....it was the lack of any
difference with the star polyps that prompted my call to the LFS....

Thanks
Gill

Going from high light down to a lower but suitable
lighting, can take a few days, but only a few.

I would suggest doing a larger water change like a 50%
water change, and see what happens. And if no change
another 50% water change.

I would recommend that you get a floating glass
hydrometer, as a backup hydrometer for comparison.
Sometimes those swing hydrometers can sway.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Gill Passman wrote on 11/16/2006 7:45 PM:
Wayne Sallee wrote:
Your temp is not the problem. It's probably your lights. How much
lighting do you have? Have you tried making a large water change to
see if that helps? Have you verified to make sure that your hydrometer
is measuring correctly?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




The capnella, button polyps, mushrooms and xenia are all doing fine
under the lighting (although I am sensitive to the need to maximise
this) - the LFS do not think that the lights are the issue....certainly
a move to T5s can be done easily...there is not sufficient clearance to
put in halides - the tank is in the kitchen....I currently have 3 T8
flourescents giving 3W per gall....not the best but from my
understanding should be sufficient for the Star Polyps as well as the
other soft corals that I have. I deliberately am not purchasing anything
with high light requirements - I'll save them until I convert another
larger tank and can add the halides. Now, one thing on the lighting is
that the Star Polyps in question were kept in the tank with the halides
at the LFS - and I have asked over and over if that might be the issue -
ie. they are struggling to acclimatize to my lower level of lights and
keep getting the answer "no" - right now they swapped the first colony
for another (slightly more expensive) colony so I'm not losing but I
just don't like not seeing any creature in my care not thriving.

The hydrometer is calibrated to 25C so there is some degree of
inaccuracy....it's a very basic swingometer type of thing (Red Sea) -
I'm thinking maybe I should get something a bit more sophisticated....it
tends to stick if left in the water for any length of time and needs a
good rinse before I would even start to trust it (I think this was the
first lesson I learnt when I originally set up the tank prior to adding
anything other than water and salt).

I made a 15% water change yesterday morning....it was the lack of any
difference with the star polyps that prompted my call to the LFS....

Thanks
Gill

How long did you have them before you started moving them around?
Sometimes GSP can take a few days to come out at all let alone fully
expand. Leave them alone and see what happens. If it's more than a
week then move them, but don't panic.

How much flow do you have in your tank? GSP likes moderate alternating
flow. Your params are OK. There is no need to keep doing water
changes. You'll want to reduce the PO4, but water changes are to
remove nitrates (which you have 0) and replace trace elements.

Do you have a skimmer?


Gill Passman wrote:
Wayne Sallee wrote:
Your temp is not the problem. It's probably your lights. How much
lighting do you have? Have you tried making a large water change to see
if that helps? Have you verified to make sure that your hydrometer is
measuring correctly?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets




The capnella, button polyps, mushrooms and xenia are all doing fine
under the lighting (although I am sensitive to the need to maximise
this) - the LFS do not think that the lights are the issue....certainly
a move to T5s can be done easily...there is not sufficient clearance to
put in halides - the tank is in the kitchen....I currently have 3 T8
flourescents giving 3W per gall....not the best but from my
understanding should be sufficient for the Star Polyps as well as the
other soft corals that I have. I deliberately am not purchasing anything
with high light requirements - I'll save them until I convert another
larger tank and can add the halides. Now, one thing on the lighting is
that the Star Polyps in question were kept in the tank with the halides
at the LFS - and I have asked over and over if that might be the issue -
ie. they are struggling to acclimatize to my lower level of lights and
keep getting the answer "no" - right now they swapped the first colony
for another (slightly more expensive) colony so I'm not losing but I
just don't like not seeing any creature in my care not thriving.

The hydrometer is calibrated to 25C so there is some degree of
inaccuracy....it's a very basic swingometer type of thing (Red Sea) -
I'm thinking maybe I should get something a bit more sophisticated....it
tends to stick if left in the water for any length of time and needs a
good rinse before I would even start to trust it (I think this was the
first lesson I learnt when I originally set up the tank prior to adding
anything other than water and salt).

I made a 15% water change yesterday morning....it was the lack of any
difference with the star polyps that prompted my call to the LFS....

Thanks
Gill

wrote:
How long did you have them before you started moving them around?

I had them approximately 3 weeks and tried 3 different positions - as it
is a small tank there aren't that many options - bottom, middle and top.

Sometimes GSP can take a few days to come out at all let alone fully
expand. Leave them alone and see what happens. If it's more than a
week then move them, but don't panic.

This makes sense....the position that I put the replacements is where I
want them to be (if it suits them of course).


How much flow do you have in your tank? GSP likes moderate alternating
flow.

There are 2 Powerheads in there - an Aquaclear 20 and a New-Jet 600 (550
L/h - tank is 60L without any LR)- neither is turned up full - it got
way too choppy in there running at full power.

Your params are OK. There is no need to keep doing water
changes. You'll want to reduce the PO4, but water changes are to
remove nitrates (which you have 0) and replace trace elements.


I've got some Hagen Green-X which says it is suitable for salt as well
as freshwater (I use it in my Malawi tank where phosphate is always an
issue) but it is for use in a filter, which I don't have in the Nano
tank....Is there anything that you would recommend?


Do you have a skimmer?

Yes, I have a Sander Piccolo Skimmer with a wooden airstone. It hangs
inside the tank. A very simple design but it works well.

Gill

wrote on 11/16/2006 8:31 PM:
There is no need to keep doing water
changes. You'll want to reduce the PO4, but water changes are to
remove nitrates (which you have 0) and replace trace elements.

One should not have to do water changes to remove
nitrates. There are other things that water changes
remove, like toxic chemicals that some corals release, and
for removing other possible unknown problems.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Wayne Sallee wrote:
wrote on 11/16/2006 8:31 PM:

There is no need to keep doing water
changes. You'll want to reduce the PO4, but water changes are to
remove nitrates (which you have 0) and replace trace elements.


One should not have to do water changes to remove nitrates. There are
other things that water changes remove, like toxic chemicals that some
corals release, and for removing other possible unknown problems.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


My nitrates are fine at 0...along with ammonia and nitrites - plus I
have lowered my Sg over the last 4 days to match the LFS levels....so
yes, I think it is some toxic chemical in there....and so will be
increasing the volume and frequency of my water changes....the GSP that
I returned to the LFS is still struggling with their Sg of 1.023 and
under halide lights, directly under the powerhead....so it has good
light and good water flow....it has to be said it is starting to recover
but not as quickly as they thought it would if it was just lights and
water flow....my pink star polyps have also given up....I checked my
tank diary and I did notice the original GSP did throw out some white
liquid into the tank - maybe there was a nasty in there....

So having ruled out the usual water quality parameters, the lighting
etc. then the only thing left is something toxic in the water.....I do
have some sort of red powdery stuff in there that stings my arms when
doing clean ups....maybe this is the cause.....I'm at a loss.....

So it is big water changes as per Wayne for me....in the hope that this
will make a difference....if it doesn't then I will need to stop keeping
Star Polyps as the rest of my corals are doing quite well (Mushrooms,
buttons, xenia and capnella)....but I really hate to admit defeat....

Gill