Should we use Ocean Water in our Sal****er Aquarium?

"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message ...
BTW, the last water change on my personal tank was on January 06.
Had two vacations since and left home for more than 3 weeks on each.

Will you refuse details about your tank as you did in the past,
or this time you will tell us something about it ?

What corals do you keep since last water change ?
How big is the tank and what kind, how many fish you keep there ?
Do you use any phosphate removal chemicals/reactors ?
Any additives for calcium or anything else ?
Any pictures of the tank showing the condition of the corals ?

Surely you do not expect him to divulge this top secret info. His scam
would be over.

On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:59:42 -0600, "Pszemol"
wrote:

"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message ...
BTW, the last water change on my personal tank was on January 06.
Had two vacations since and left home for more than 3 weeks on each.

Will you refuse details about your tank as you did in the past,
or this time you will tell us something about it ?

What corals do you keep since last water change ?
How big is the tank and what kind, how many fish you keep there ?
Do you use any phosphate removal chemicals/reactors ?
Any additives for calcium or anything else ?
Any pictures of the tank showing the condition of the corals ?

"Tristan" wrote in message ...
Surely you do not expect him to divulge this top secret info.
His scam would be over.

My possition on the issue is that you CAN, of course, have
a fish tank without changing water for a year or longer...
The problem lays in details: what tank, what animals are
kept there, how do they feel, how yellow the water is, etc.
That is why I do not doubt in the fact itself - I assume he
is telling truth: he is not changing water since January.
But I would like to know what kind of tank it is, its size, etc.

As always, I do appreciate your input, you are one of the few I read
complete posts from.
I am going to try to answer all your questions the best I can.

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message
...
BTW, the last water change on my personal tank was on January 06. Had two
vacations since and left home for more than 3 weeks on each.

Will you refuse details about your tank as you did in the past,
or this time you will tell us something about it ?

I did say that my tank is experimental and the filtering system is under
development. It is, altogether, a 95 gal FWLR system. No corals yet. I
know this is a reef newsgroup but is also the only group with great
information. Reef aquariums don't have to have corals. I will upgrade
later when I get my new T5 lighting.


What corals do you keep since last water change ?
none

How big is the tank and what kind, how many fish you keep there ?
is a 65 galons FWLR and it has...
1 blenny on the main aquarium and one in the mini-tank
1 juvenile Blue Angelfish
1 Foxface Rabbitfish
1 Regal Damoiselle
4 juvenile Clark's Clownfish
1 Boxing Shrimp
10 Astrea Snails
10 Hermits
1 brown short spine Sea Urchin
2 Emerald Crabs
2 Peppermint Shrimps
1 Yellow Tang
15lbs Liverock
Enough Caulerpa and hair algae in my mini-tank as a mean to extract every
two weeks nutrients from the water column, 5 ounces every other week
harvested

My Cebae Anemone died due to poor lighting.

The current water parameters of my tank are posted on my website and all
except O2 are good. Yet, this readings are questionable because there is
enough air input. I am going to buy a Pinpoint monitor to double check.
http://www.guayni.com/mytank.htm


Do you use any phosphate removal chemicals/reactors ?
Rowaphos!

Any additives for calcium or anything else ?
Reef buffer by Seachem and baking soda!

Any pictures of the tank showing the condition of the corals ?
since I have no corals, no I have no pictures YET!

Thanks!

"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message .. .
I did say that my tank is experimental and the filtering system is under
development. It is, altogether, a 95 gal FWLR system. No corals yet.
I know this is a reef newsgroup but is also the only group with great
information. Reef aquariums don't have to have corals. I will upgrade
later when I get my new T5 lighting.

Well, think about it for a moment:
You are educated marine biologist but have no experience with reef tanks
(I am talking about the REAL reef tanks, with corals as the main bioload!)
It does not stop you from offering your advices on a reef forums and
suggesting that water changes are totally not necessary in the reef tank,
giving an example your own tank without water changes since January
BUT YOU HAVE NO CORALS...

What is wrong with this picture, Jaime?


BTW-
I have checked the website you linked (http://www.guayni.com/mytank.htm)
and I noticed that the measurements history does not start at January '06.
Do you have any data from before September ? Could you share them online ?
Also - please note EXTREMELY high readings for nutrients in your tank:
you show 100mg/l of nitrates and 1mg/l phosphates. Maybe this can be
tolerated by fish only tank, but it is not very healthy for fish...
With this levels of nitrates they are in constant stress and their growth
is retarded. These kind of water conditions are absolutely impossible
in a successful reef tank where you strive to keep nitrates below 10mg/l
(better below 5mg/l) and phosphates below 0.1mg/l - less is better.
Concentration of these ions in your tank is 10x greater...

I can tell you already, with such high nutrients level in your tank
adding more light will cause your tank turn into mud pond full of algae.
There is no way to have a reef tank with 100mg/l of nitrates and 1mg/l of
phosphates - that is why we, REEF tank owners, change the water periodically.

Once again: read some books about reef tanks, prepare your tank properly,
buy some easy to keep corals "for begginers" (leather, mushrooms, etc)
and when you gain some experience with keeping corals get some more
demanding coral species. Keep them in good health growing and looking
good for a year or two and then you will be equipped in some bare
minimal experience to share advices on a reef tank newsgroups...

Do not be the second "boOger1" on this newsgroup who states he does not
see the reason for water changes in a reef tank, but himself he does
not have any reef tank experience... His claims are very similar to yours:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...1bb113fa0b0385
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5c6ba77311f288

So far your advices about no changing water do more harm than good!

Seriously - please do - not one - do SEVERAL 20-30% water changes
for the sake of good health and well being of your marine animals...

Take care,
Pszemol.

"Pszemol" wrote in message ...
I have checked the website you linked (http://www.guayni.com/mytank.htm)
and I noticed that the measurements history does not start at January '06.
Do you have any data from before September ? Could you share them online ?
Also - please note EXTREMELY high readings for nutrients in your tank:
you show 100mg/l of nitrates and 1mg/l phosphates. Maybe this can be
tolerated by fish only tank, but it is not very healthy for fish...

One more thing - what kind of tests were used for testing nitrates
and phosphates in your tank ? What brand/manufacturer ?

For most of the aquarium grade tests, 100mg/l mark would be at the
far end of the color scale, so it is completely possible you have
there much more than a 100mg/l of nitrates. This happened to me
once in a freshwater tank full of guppies and mollies where I did
neglect water changes for about half a year. I tested the water
and got 100mg/l of nitrates, so to be sure I diluted aquarium water
sample ten-fold to get expected reading 10mg/l - I got about 20-40mg/l
instead which mean that the tank water had concentration close to 200mg/l

Maybe the same is in your tank ? Better do some water changes, soon!

Oh! but I will do water changes eventually, not yet!

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
I have checked the website you linked (http://www.guayni.com/mytank.htm)
and I noticed that the measurements history does not start at January
'06.
Do you have any data from before September ? Could you share them online
?
Also - please note EXTREMELY high readings for nutrients in your tank:
you show 100mg/l of nitrates and 1mg/l phosphates. Maybe this can be
tolerated by fish only tank, but it is not very healthy for fish...

One more thing - what kind of tests were used for testing nitrates
and phosphates in your tank ? What brand/manufacturer ?

For most of the aquarium grade tests, 100mg/l mark would be at the
far end of the color scale, so it is completely possible you have
there much more than a 100mg/l of nitrates. This happened to me
once in a freshwater tank full of guppies and mollies where I did
neglect water changes for about half a year. I tested the water and got
100mg/l of nitrates, so to be sure I diluted aquarium water
sample ten-fold to get expected reading 10mg/l - I got about 20-40mg/l
instead which mean that the tank water had concentration close to 200mg/l

Maybe the same is in your tank ? Better do some water changes, soon!

"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message ...
Oh! but I will do water changes eventually, not yet!

You are probably wait for first sings of stress in fish, right ?

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"Guayni; SAHS" wrote in message
...
Oh! but I will do water changes eventually, not yet!

You are probably wait for first sings of stress in fish, right ?

For a week you had me considering changing water. My NO3, PO4 and O2 levels
were off. Maybe you were right I thought.

Last week I did a complete maintenance on my system to see if I could lower
the numbers down some or else I was going to GRADUALLY start changing water.

Well, after changing two of the filtering media on my system and adding
another air pump to the system I am glad to share my new numbers on my
website.

After these changes the NO3 came down to 50 (looks between 50 and 75 but is
closer to 50) my NO2 is at 0.1 and my PO4 is lower than 1 (between 0.5 and
1.0 but closer to 1.0)

The point is that I am able to make adjustment to the system in seven
different ways and with my charts its easier to pinpoint what changes should
be made to achieve this.

Well, my fish is doing fine, no signs of stress, the inverts are thriving
and algae is blooming in my sump not in the tank.

I am sure the system works. Not only that, there is a huge accumulation of
Phosphates (PO4) and Nitrogen (NO3) rich debris under the minitank just
before the skimmer. If I am able to remove NO3 and PO4 before the water
goes back to the tank then there is no need to change water.

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll keep you informed!

Guayni; SAHS wrote:

Oh! but I will do water changes eventually, not yet!

Keep in mind that, if you wait until there are significant problems, you will
have to take really drastic action. With nitrates at 100mg/L, a 25% change will
only bring them down to 75mg/L. An additional 25% change will only get them to
56ml/L.

If your fish begin to show signs of distress due to nitrates, you will have to
rapidly reduce the level to below 40mg/L, which will be a *very* large water change.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.