underwater gravel

it is best to be careful of "wonder shells" because there has been this idea of
making "calcium pucks" from plaster of paris and in acid water it can really jerk the
pH around ... lethally.

the absolute best way to stabilize calcium or "hardness" is with dolomitic limestone
(not dolomite) which also has magnesium in it (which oyster shells do not). it comes
powdered and the right stuff looks off white with bits of black flecking in it. even
limestone chunks are good (but not marble). powdered dolomitic limestone stays in
the bottom of the tank dissolved on demand. getting the right stuff is not always
easy, but a lot is not needed either. Ingrid

"Jen" wrote:


"carlrs" wrote in message
ups.com...

Nitric acid production is on going in all healthy well cycled
aquariums. Proper kH is what is important here, and not just the old
school method of baking soda, which does not add the calcium needed by
all fish (in fact all animals), and also does not add necessary
electrolytes. There are many excellent ways of doing this from Wonder
Shells to bags of aragonite in the filter.


Can you explain this please? Are you saying that Wonder Shells are needed
in all aquariums? What are they?


Jen




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
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www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

wrote:
it is best to be careful of "wonder shells" because there has been this idea of
making "calcium pucks" from plaster of paris and in acid water it can really jerk the
pH around ... lethally.

the absolute best way to stabilize calcium or "hardness" is with dolomitic limestone
(not dolomite) which also has magnesium in it (which oyster shells do not). it comes
powdered and the right stuff looks off white with bits of black flecking in it. even
limestone chunks are good (but not marble). powdered dolomitic limestone stays in
the bottom of the tank dissolved on demand. getting the right stuff is not always
easy, but a lot is not needed either. Ingrid


Are you even familiar with this product?
It is not new, nor is it perfect.
Although dolomitic limestone is a good control for pH and somewhat for
kH, magnesium in small quantities is essential for proper osmotic
function, and even more so as a Redox reducer which new research shows
is very important for proper water chemistry.
I have used these Wonder Shels in literally thousands of aquariums I
have maintained without ever experiencing what you are talking about.
These products are admittedly poorly named, as they do not do wonders,
nor are they a cure all, but they are a usefull tool in good aquatic
husbandry.

As to water channeling in UGFs, you are absolutely correct, but this is
a problem in many poorly maintained filters, including wet drys. The
design of the Nektonics unit tends to somewhat alleviate this problem.
I am not however promoting this filter, as it is not even available any
more, but those who have been involved in the aquatics industry for any
amount of time are familiar with it (such as Netmax).

The site you posted is very good beginner information, but there is
newer research that can be added (such as the fact that Redox plays a
larger roll in aquatic health than pH for many fish, especially dirty
fish such as goldfish).

Anearobic activity is not hard to control in properly maintained
aquariums, and as I stated earlier, I have only accidentally suctioned
goldfish 3 times in over 56,000 cleanings, not bad odds (and those
accidents were years ago). The Nylon sock is however a good idea, but
others still can gravel vacuum properly without one, and honestly the
Lees is amuch better value than the Python.

"carlrs" wrote in message
ps.com...
wrote:
it is best to be careful of "wonder shells" because there has been this
idea of
making "calcium pucks" from plaster of paris and in acid water it can
really jerk the
pH around ... lethally.

the absolute best way to stabilize calcium or "hardness" is with
dolomitic limestone
(not dolomite) which also has magnesium in it (which oyster shells do
not). it comes
powdered and the right stuff looks off white with bits of black flecking
in it. even
limestone chunks are good (but not marble). powdered dolomitic limestone
stays in
the bottom of the tank dissolved on demand. getting the right stuff is
not always
easy, but a lot is not needed either. Ingrid


Are you even familiar with this product?
It is not new, nor is it perfect.
Although dolomitic limestone is a good control for pH and somewhat for
kH, magnesium in small quantities is essential for proper osmotic
function, and even more so as a Redox reducer which new research shows
is very important for proper water chemistry.
I have used these Wonder Shels in literally thousands of aquariums I
have maintained without ever experiencing what you are talking about.
These products are admittedly poorly named, as they do not do wonders,
nor are they a cure all, but they are a usefull tool in good aquatic
husbandry.

As to water channeling in UGFs, you are absolutely correct, but this is
a problem in many poorly maintained filters, including wet drys. The
design of the Nektonics unit tends to somewhat alleviate this problem.
I am not however promoting this filter, as it is not even available any
more, but those who have been involved in the aquatics industry for any
amount of time are familiar with it (such as Netmax).

The site you posted is very good beginner information, but there is
newer research that can be added (such as the fact that Redox plays a
larger roll in aquatic health than pH for many fish, especially dirty
fish such as goldfish).

Anearobic activity is not hard to control in properly maintained
aquariums, and as I stated earlier, I have only accidentally suctioned
goldfish 3 times in over 56,000 cleanings, not bad odds (and those
accidents were years ago). The Nylon sock is however a good idea, but
others still can gravel vacuum properly without one, and honestly the
Lees is amuch better value than the Python.


By the mere name alone 'wonder shells' I am sceptical.
I like to know exactly what it is I am adding.
pH is such a small part of the game anyway
I keep mine good with partial water changes
If I wanna be lazy I throw a few bits of coral in a filter.

Only thing I actually buy to add is dechlorinator
everthing else is easily knocked up

As a cure all
go buy some human food grade bentonite clay.
health food shops
a tablespoon in a bottle of aquarium water
shake it up
pour it in
go to bed
yes it will cloud the tank up for a bit
try a small dose first
but it will rip any crud out of the water

how this effects pH I don't quite know
but I just solved a wacky swingin' one with it.

Keep in mind water needs to degass after coming out of tank before it shows
true pH
and plants swing pH up and down thru day so always test at same time if
possible.
ALmost every fish can handle the pH 7.6 to 7.8 that a bit of shellgrit in
the gravel provides.

5am and ramblin on usenet
w000t
livin the dream eh

swarvegorilla wrote:
"carlrs" wrote in message
ps.com...
wrote:
it is best to be careful of "wonder shells" because there has been this
idea of
making "calcium pucks" from plaster of paris and in acid water it can
really jerk the
pH around ... lethally.

the absolute best way to stabilize calcium or "hardness" is with
dolomitic limestone
(not dolomite) which also has magnesium in it (which oyster shells do
not). it comes
powdered and the right stuff looks off white with bits of black flecking
in it. even
limestone chunks are good (but not marble). powdered dolomitic limestone
stays in
the bottom of the tank dissolved on demand. getting the right stuff is
not always
easy, but a lot is not needed either. Ingrid


Are you even familiar with this product?
It is not new, nor is it perfect.
Although dolomitic limestone is a good control for pH and somewhat for
kH, magnesium in small quantities is essential for proper osmotic
function, and even more so as a Redox reducer which new research shows
is very important for proper water chemistry.
I have used these Wonder Shels in literally thousands of aquariums I
have maintained without ever experiencing what you are talking about.
These products are admittedly poorly named, as they do not do wonders,
nor are they a cure all, but they are a usefull tool in good aquatic
husbandry.

As to water channeling in UGFs, you are absolutely correct, but this is
a problem in many poorly maintained filters, including wet drys. The
design of the Nektonics unit tends to somewhat alleviate this problem.
I am not however promoting this filter, as it is not even available any
more, but those who have been involved in the aquatics industry for any
amount of time are familiar with it (such as Netmax).

The site you posted is very good beginner information, but there is
newer research that can be added (such as the fact that Redox plays a
larger roll in aquatic health than pH for many fish, especially dirty
fish such as goldfish).

Anearobic activity is not hard to control in properly maintained
aquariums, and as I stated earlier, I have only accidentally suctioned
goldfish 3 times in over 56,000 cleanings, not bad odds (and those
accidents were years ago). The Nylon sock is however a good idea, but
others still can gravel vacuum properly without one, and honestly the
Lees is amuch better value than the Python.


By the mere name alone 'wonder shells' I am sceptical.
I like to know exactly what it is I am adding.
pH is such a small part of the game anyway
I keep mine good with partial water changes
If I wanna be lazy I throw a few bits of coral in a filter.

Only thing I actually buy to add is dechlorinator
everthing else is easily knocked up

As a cure all
go buy some human food grade bentonite clay.
health food shops
a tablespoon in a bottle of aquarium water
shake it up
pour it in
go to bed
yes it will cloud the tank up for a bit
try a small dose first
but it will rip any crud out of the water

how this effects pH I don't quite know
but I just solved a wacky swingin' one with it.

Keep in mind water needs to degass after coming out of tank before it shows
true pH
and plants swing pH up and down thru day so always test at same time if
possible.
ALmost every fish can handle the pH 7.6 to 7.8 that a bit of shellgrit in
the gravel provides.

5am and ramblin on usenet
w000t
livin the dream eh

I agree with your point "'wonder shells' I am sceptical.", this is
poorly named, but if you look at this product:
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/...nderShell.html
You will see that the main ingredients are listed. Also I have
repeatedly made the point thatthese are not a cure all or a pH
adjuster. These are a useful "tool" for kH, calcium, magnesium, and
electrolyte control, but they do not take the place of sound aquarium
hesbandry. They are not even new, I have used them for years.

I also especially agree with your comment about Spnge Filters over UGF
(I stated this earlier too), I just think UGFs do not deserve the
slamming they sometimes get, especially the Nektonics brand. Even all
sponge filters are NOT the same, some such as the Tetra use a sponge
media that clogs easily and does not have the internal surface area to
support as many bacterial colonies as the Hydro Sponge.

"carlrs" wrote in message
oups.com...

swarvegorilla wrote:
"carlrs" wrote in message
ps.com...
wrote:
it is best to be careful of "wonder shells" because there has been
this
idea of
making "calcium pucks" from plaster of paris and in acid water it can
really jerk the
pH around ... lethally.

the absolute best way to stabilize calcium or "hardness" is with
dolomitic limestone
(not dolomite) which also has magnesium in it (which oyster shells do
not). it comes
powdered and the right stuff looks off white with bits of black
flecking
in it. even
limestone chunks are good (but not marble). powdered dolomitic
limestone
stays in
the bottom of the tank dissolved on demand. getting the right stuff
is
not always
easy, but a lot is not needed either. Ingrid


Are you even familiar with this product?
It is not new, nor is it perfect.
Although dolomitic limestone is a good control for pH and somewhat for
kH, magnesium in small quantities is essential for proper osmotic
function, and even more so as a Redox reducer which new research shows
is very important for proper water chemistry.
I have used these Wonder Shels in literally thousands of aquariums I
have maintained without ever experiencing what you are talking about.
These products are admittedly poorly named, as they do not do wonders,
nor are they a cure all, but they are a usefull tool in good aquatic
husbandry.

As to water channeling in UGFs, you are absolutely correct, but this is
a problem in many poorly maintained filters, including wet drys. The
design of the Nektonics unit tends to somewhat alleviate this problem.
I am not however promoting this filter, as it is not even available any
more, but those who have been involved in the aquatics industry for any
amount of time are familiar with it (such as Netmax).

The site you posted is very good beginner information, but there is
newer research that can be added (such as the fact that Redox plays a
larger roll in aquatic health than pH for many fish, especially dirty
fish such as goldfish).

Anearobic activity is not hard to control in properly maintained
aquariums, and as I stated earlier, I have only accidentally suctioned
goldfish 3 times in over 56,000 cleanings, not bad odds (and those
accidents were years ago). The Nylon sock is however a good idea, but
others still can gravel vacuum properly without one, and honestly the
Lees is amuch better value than the Python.


By the mere name alone 'wonder shells' I am sceptical.
I like to know exactly what it is I am adding.
pH is such a small part of the game anyway
I keep mine good with partial water changes
If I wanna be lazy I throw a few bits of coral in a filter.

Only thing I actually buy to add is dechlorinator
everthing else is easily knocked up

As a cure all
go buy some human food grade bentonite clay.
health food shops
a tablespoon in a bottle of aquarium water
shake it up
pour it in
go to bed
yes it will cloud the tank up for a bit
try a small dose first
but it will rip any crud out of the water

how this effects pH I don't quite know
but I just solved a wacky swingin' one with it.

Keep in mind water needs to degass after coming out of tank before it
shows
true pH
and plants swing pH up and down thru day so always test at same time if
possible.
ALmost every fish can handle the pH 7.6 to 7.8 that a bit of shellgrit in
the gravel provides.

5am and ramblin on usenet
w000t
livin the dream eh

I agree with your point "'wonder shells' I am sceptical.", this is
poorly named, but if you look at this product:
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/...nderShell.html
You will see that the main ingredients are listed. Also I have
repeatedly made the point thatthese are not a cure all or a pH
adjuster. These are a useful "tool" for kH, calcium, magnesium, and
electrolyte control, but they do not take the place of sound aquarium
hesbandry. They are not even new, I have used them for years.

I also especially agree with your comment about Spnge Filters over UGF
(I stated this earlier too), I just think UGFs do not deserve the
slamming they sometimes get, especially the Nektonics brand. Even all
sponge filters are NOT the same, some such as the Tetra use a sponge
media that clogs easily and does not have the internal surface area to
support as many bacterial colonies as the Hydro Sponge.


moving into aquaculture now......
the scale of things is really begining to change hey.
We change water conditions with sacks of stuff.......
but despite the fact it's bigger and more exe...... we really keep it
simple.
Line the dirt ponds with bentonite clay, the concrete ones are still sweet
and we got a load limestone gravel for the driveway in the fibreglass tubs.
Filters range from suspended buckets of gravel, huge pvc pipes with sponge
prefilters that feed our stacked milk crate bio-towers.
At the end of the day it's really **** all work for how many fish we
have..... I am trying to bring the theory into practise with me tanks at
home.
yea OT and ****e but...... I know everything I add now.
anything I'm not sure of
I call aquaculture free helpline
and the fish scientists explain ingredients and stuff.
HA! so much for secret tricks of the trade.
W0000000000t!!!

Sponge filters and calcium carbonate..... too bloody easy!
Now keeping it stable nice and soft and low to trigger tetra's
thats a bit more tricky..... tho slightly less when ya pass the 2,000L mark
Swarvegorilla