A new tank without cycling

Tynk,

I didn't realize this. I am guilty of doing the filter "swish" in the
new tank whenever I change out the media. I've never done it to cycle a
tank but I always thought it would help when I'm replacing the media
bag with a clean one. Go figure.


Tynk wrote:
Also, as for simply squeezing an established filter's media into the
tank and leaving the muck behind and *not* the actual filter pad, you
have not added the nitrifying bacteria to the new tank. The bacteria
secrete a glue like substance and adhere themselves to the surface of
the pad, gravel, tank walls, plants, decor, etc. of the established
tank.
They do not fall off the filter pad when you squeeze it out, nor do
they float about in the water as some people may think.
This sticky substance was found by scientists within like the last 10
yrs.
Many older hobbyists still think you can take the debris or squeeze out
a filter pad and seed a new tank, however, you cannot.

IDzine01 wrote:

Tynk,

I didn't realize this. I am guilty of doing the filter "swish" in the
new tank whenever I change out the media. I've never done it to cycle a
tank but I always thought it would help when I'm replacing the media
bag with a clean one. Go figure.

Using media and substrate is better, but you will get a certain amount of
bacteria in gunk as well. The bacteria are not fussy about what they adhere
to, so they will adhere to all sorts of debris and particles. When you
swish out dirt and organic out of a filter pan, there will be some bacteria
adhered to a lot of that.

Tynk wrote:
Also, as for simply squeezing an established filter's media into the
tank and leaving the muck behind and *not* the actual filter pad, you
have not added the nitrifying bacteria to the new tank. The bacteria
secrete a glue like substance and adhere themselves to the surface of
the pad, gravel, tank walls, plants, decor, etc. of the established
tank.
They do not fall off the filter pad when you squeeze it out, nor do
they float about in the water as some people may think.
This sticky substance was found by scientists within like the last 10
yrs.
Many older hobbyists still think you can take the debris or squeeze out
a filter pad and seed a new tank, however, you cannot.

IDzine01 wrote:
Tynk,

I didn't realize this. I am guilty of doing the filter "swish" in the
new tank whenever I change out the media. I've never done it to cycle a
tank but I always thought it would help when I'm replacing the media
bag with a clean one. Go figure.


Tynk wrote:
Also, as for simply squeezing an established filter's media into the
tank and leaving the muck behind and *not* the actual filter pad, you
have not added the nitrifying bacteria to the new tank. The bacteria
secrete a glue like substance and adhere themselves to the surface of
the pad, gravel, tank walls, plants, decor, etc. of the established
tank.
They do not fall off the filter pad when you squeeze it out, nor do
they float about in the water as some people may think.
This sticky substance was found by scientists within like the last 10
yrs.
Many older hobbyists still think you can take the debris or squeeze out
a filter pad and seed a new tank, however, you cannot.

Christie,
I used to think this way as well.
I did it a million times. I also use old tank water to help speed it
up. I also saved old tank water when I moved to this house 18 yrs ago,
so to keep the bacteria....so I thought.
Modern science has proven this to be untrue.
There are different types of bacteria in the nitrifying cycle. The ones
that start up the cycle are not the ones we used to think they are. It
used to be thought that they were "nitrosomas" that converted ammonia
to nitrite and then "nitrobacter" bacteria would convert that to
nitrite.
However, it's been learned that nitrospira bacteria are actually the
start up bacteria.
This is why products such as Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, Bacterboost (if I
have the name right, I'm not sure at all on that one) all have the
wrong bacteria in them. They can get away with claiming they cycle a
tank without getting sued because these bacteria are *technically*
part of the cycling process. When one uses one of these products to
"cycle" their tank, they really aren't. The tank still has to build the
nitrospira bacteria. So when you add fish , you are technically still
cycling with fish.
Science has also proven recently that the nitrifying bacteria are so
"glued" to surfaces that even very strong water cannot break them
loose.
Knowing this current information, how would squeezing a filter pad in a
new tank release them. It wouldn't. It's just outdated information.
Kind of like the old, or rather better said, not current generation
still telling folks the "one inch per gallon rule". = )~

Tynk wrote:
IDzine01 wrote:
Tynk,

I didn't realize this. I am guilty of doing the filter "swish" in the
new tank whenever I change out the media. I've never done it to cycle a
tank but I always thought it would help when I'm replacing the media
bag with a clean one. Go figure.


Tynk wrote:
Also, as for simply squeezing an established filter's media into the
tank and leaving the muck behind and *not* the actual filter pad, you
have not added the nitrifying bacteria to the new tank. The bacteria
secrete a glue like substance and adhere themselves to the surface of
the pad, gravel, tank walls, plants, decor, etc. of the established
tank.
They do not fall off the filter pad when you squeeze it out, nor do
they float about in the water as some people may think.
This sticky substance was found by scientists within like the last 10
yrs.
Many older hobbyists still think you can take the debris or squeeze out
a filter pad and seed a new tank, however, you cannot.

Christie,
I used to think this way as well.
I did it a million times. I also use old tank water to help speed it
up. I also saved old tank water when I moved to this house 18 yrs ago,
so to keep the bacteria....so I thought.
Modern science has proven this to be untrue.

However, it's been learned that nitrospira bacteria are actually the
start up bacteria.
This is why products such as Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, Bacterboost (if I
have the name right, I'm not sure at all on that one) all have the
wrong bacteria in them. They can get away with claiming they cycle a
tank without getting sued because these bacteria are *technically*
part of the cycling process. When one uses one of these products to
"cycle" their tank, they really aren't. The tank still has to build the
nitrospira bacteria. So when you add fish , you are technically still
cycling with fish.
Science has also proven recently that the nitrifying bacteria are so
"glued" to surfaces that even very strong water cannot break them
loose.
Knowing this current information, how would squeezing a filter pad in a
new tank release them. It wouldn't. It's just outdated information.
Kind of like the old, or rather better said, not current generation
still telling folks the "one inch per gallon rule". = )~

oops...type -o....

There are different types of bacteria in the nitrifying cycle. The
ones
that start up the cycle are not the ones we used to think they are. It
used to be thought that they were "nitrosomas" that converted ammonia
to nitrite and then "nitrobacter" bacteria would convert that to
nitrite..

I meant to say:
Nitrosomas breaking down the ammonia and then the nitrobacter bacteria
would convert it to nitrite, and so on.

Tynk wrote:
Kind of like the old, or rather better said, not current generation
still telling folks the "one inch per gallon rule". = )~

Is the one-inch-per-gallon rule no longer valid?!

Nobody told me... when did this happen?



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

nut wrote:
Tynk wrote:
Kind of like the old, or rather better said, not current generation
still telling folks the "one inch per gallon rule". = )~

Is the one-inch-per-gallon rule no longer valid?!

Nobody told me... when did this happen?


It happened quite a while ago.
You cannot set such a vague "rule" when there are way too many
variables when it comes to stocking a fish...much more than it's size
in inches.
Things one needs to consider are of course the adult size in length,
but also mass makes quite a difference. Waste output is different with
some species. Territory requirements.
Just because a fish may be on the smaller side, doesn't mean it's not
going to shredd another fish that comes into it's territory, but was
the right size in inches for the rest of the space in the tank.
Dietary needs, temp, water chemistry, lighting, etc.
All of these things need to be coinsidered when stocking a tank, not
just how long the fish will grow to when it's an adult.
This is why it's not valid.

"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
You cannot set such a vague "rule" when there are way too many
variables when it comes to stocking a fish...much more than it's size
in inches.
======================
Such as the fact a 1" goldfish passes a lot more waste than a 1" guppy.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Zëbulon wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
You cannot set such a vague "rule" when there are way too many
variables when it comes to stocking a fish...much more than it's size
in inches.
======================
Such as the fact a 1" goldfish passes a lot more waste than a 1"
guppy.

The rule was for tropical fish, not coldwater.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"nut" wrote in message
...
Zëbulon wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
You cannot set such a vague "rule" when there are way too many
variables when it comes to stocking a fish...much more than it's size
in inches.
======================
Such as the fact a 1" goldfish passes a lot more waste than a 1"
guppy.

The rule was for tropical fish, not coldwater.
=================
This is true but how many newbies know that? They come here all the time
asking about putting tropicals with goldfish. Some people keep them
together successfully.

Also, some tropicals have a lot more bulk per inch than others.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

nut wrote:

Zëbulon wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
You cannot set such a vague "rule" when there are way too many
variables when it comes to stocking a fish...much more than it's size
in inches.
======================
Such as the fact a 1" goldfish passes a lot more waste than a 1"
guppy.

The rule was for tropical fish, not coldwater.

Doesn't work there either really. A six inch Rainbow fish is a lot more
mass, and a bigger waste producer, and requires more tank, than 2 or 3
neons...