Pond sealer & dead plants

~ janj wrote:
... fish can survive
high pH where plants will die. Plus I think saying something is "fine" is
pretty general, goldfish are tough. ~ jan

Pretty good discussion so far. Ingrid has almost certainly thought of
this already, but the sealer may be somehow toxic to plants but ok with
fish. That would not necessarily show up in any of the usual water
tests. Another 100% water change would reduce this factor, because most
of the possible toxins may have leached by now.

OTH, perhaps catfish chow is the secret ingredient for growing pond
plants ) .
d.

No actually for one person its Wally Worlds cat food!

On 7 Jan 2007 14:00:39 -0800, wrote:


~ janj wrote:
... fish can survive
high pH where plants will die. Plus I think saying something is "fine" is
pretty general, goldfish are tough. ~ jan

Pretty good discussion so far. Ingrid has almost certainly thought of
this already, but the sealer may be somehow toxic to plants but ok with
fish. That would not necessarily show up in any of the usual water
tests. Another 100% water change would reduce this factor, because most
of the possible toxins may have leached by now.

OTH, perhaps catfish chow is the secret ingredient for growing pond
plants ) .
d.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Tristan wrote:
No actually for one person its Wally Worlds cat food!

Whoops, I'll have to pay more attention when lurking. That new RPM
group will be fun, eh?
d.

On 7 Jan 2007 15:09:26 -0800, wrote:


Tristan wrote:
No actually for one person its Wally Worlds cat food!

Whoops, I'll have to pay more attention when lurking. That new RPM
group will be fun, eh?
d.

Thats an understatment.





-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

wrote in message
oups.com...

Tristan wrote:
No actually for one person its Wally Worlds cat food!

Whoops, I'll have to pay more attention when lurking. That new RPM
group will be fun, eh?
d.
=========================
It sure looks that way........ :-)
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

wrote in message
ups.com...

~ janj wrote:
... fish can survive
high pH where plants will die. Plus I think saying something is "fine" is
pretty general, goldfish are tough. ~ jan

Pretty good discussion so far. Ingrid has almost certainly thought of
this already, but the sealer may be somehow toxic to plants but ok with
fish. That would not necessarily show up in any of the usual water
tests. Another 100% water change would reduce this factor, because most
of the possible toxins may have leached by now.

OTH, perhaps catfish chow is the secret ingredient for growing pond
plants ) .
d.
======================
It sure grows nice koi and goldfish. :-) See below.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"~ janj" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:28:10 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

=====================
If the water was that drastically different I would think the fish would
have also reacted badly yet the OP says they're fine. I have to acclimate
every fish I buy here or they die from what was called PH shock not too
long
ago. Plants don't just drop over dead, especially the new ones that would
not have been as badly effected by such a drastic difference. Plants
starved for nutrients fade away.........

Going against my better judgment to reply to this, but fish can survive
high pH where plants will die. Plus I think saying something is "fine" is
pretty general, goldfish are tough. ~ jan
==================
And in my experience pond plants are not so easy to kill. I assume *you're*
talking about plants that need acidic to neutral water? Please clarify.

The fish will die from *drastic PH/TDS for fish change* before the plants
will, at least the ones I raise which have been most of the common ones for
this area including cat tails, Pickerel weed, water lilies, variegated
Japanese water grass, Sweeet flag, sterile Purple Loostrife, water iris etc.
All thrive inwater with a PH over 8.. Our water ranges from 7.4 to 8.5,
sometimes higher.

*THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE* with pond plants here in Middle TN since 1995. Your
experience my be different.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

And in my experience pond plants are not so easy to kill. I assume *you're*
talking about plants that need acidic to neutral water? Please clarify.

A great majority of plants will die with pH over 9, where goldfish will
thrive. The poster didn't say what kinds of plants, nor how quickly they
died. It could very well be, as you surmised from the beginning, that the
problem is simply winter. We don't know if Pat doesn't tell us. ~ jan

"~ janj" wrote in message
...
And in my experience pond plants are not so easy to kill. I assume
*you're*
talking about plants that need acidic to neutral water? Please clarify.

A great majority of plants will die with pH over 9, where goldfish will
thrive. The poster didn't say what kinds of plants, nor how quickly they
died. It could very well be, as you surmised from the beginning, that the
problem is simply winter. We don't know if Pat doesn't tell us. ~ jan
=====================
Let's hope she does. :-)
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Really so much for what you automatically assume dumbass! There is
just too many unasnered parts to make any kind of real assessment
anyhow. Now go away.,

On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:28:10 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"~ janj" wrote in message
m...
Not a pond person but I keep planted aquaria and am constantly dosing
them with one nutrient or another. Do you suppose that the leaky pond
obtained some nutrients from the surrounding soil, and that
water-topping-off to compensate for leaks also added elements that the
plants liked? If so, water tests for macronutrients and addition of
lacking nutrients might help - don't forget the trace elements.
d.

Good catch D. I didn't even think about why it might have all worked in
the
old pond and now isn't in the new. It all comes down to water parameters.
Hopefully Pat has some test kits. ~ jan
=====================
If the water was that drastically different I would think the fish would
have also reacted badly yet the OP says they're fine. I have to acclimate
every fish I buy here or they die from what was called PH shock not too long
ago. Plants don't just drop over dead, especially the new ones that would
not have been as badly effected by such a drastic difference. Plants
starved for nutrients fade away.........



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!