re.Koi Food

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...
It's not inappropriate to horribly overfeed fish if it's meant to grow
them
fast for food.

But, you're not growing koi for food.

Nor an I overfeeding to the point they're inactive and lethargic as the
pictures of my fish make quite clear.

Without a necropsy on your fish, you really don't know if you're damaging
their livers.

Neither was the study. Your comment
is irrelevant.

So are your endless insults, not to mention they're a waste of time to
read.

See the articles below for the relevant issues of your
feeding the wrong diet and your selling diseased fish.

If I were selling DISEASED fish I would have been put out of business by
now. Feed don't cause disease unless it's rancid or stale.

I see. You have no ability to understand the literature.

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/...p?article_id=8
from Dr. Erik Johnson's Koi Health and Disease
"Catfish chows are for short term use, even in Catfish! And they
eventually cause fatty liver syndrome in Koi."

"Which" Catfish chows? My koi are all healthy and for some reason that
upsets a few of you on this group. Maybe you tried the "wrong"
catfish/trout
chow if it diseased and killed your fish. Johnson keeps his koi under
very
different conditions than we keep ours and I have no idea what brands he
used that sickened his fish.

All of them, Gulley. You already stated yours is high fat at 5%, contains
pork, and curiously haven't identified the brand you use for analysis. You
continuously question all research by DVMs, yet supply nothing but photos as
proof of your own assertions.

http://www.avianandexotic.com/csfishes/csf001.pdf.
Practical Koi and Goldfish Medicine
Avian and Exotic Animal Care, PA
Raleigh, North Carolina 919-844-9166
Nutritional Diseases
Fatty liver: Koi raised on a diet that is high in fat, or contains corn
and
other low quality, plant-based proteins (e.g. catfish chow) may develop
hepatic lipidosis.

I'm not using a diet high in fats nor is the protein plant based. I've
posted that before. In fact everyone on this group knows what I've been
feeding for years now - why all of a sudden is it a big deal?

I don't know the brand you are feeding, so "everyone" does not know. And,
your unsubstantiated claims have been cause for debate for quite some time.
Hardly, "all of a sudden."

The protein in the feed I'm using is porcine and fish meals. The fat
content is 5.00%. It contains stabilized Vitamin C and I don't overfeed
them.

A sampling of koi food shows fat content at 3%, so yours is indeed high
fat. Do koi naturally eat pork? What brand are you feeding?

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...
It's not inappropriate to horribly overfeed fish if it's meant to grow
them
fast for food.

But, you're not growing koi for food.

Nor an I overfeeding to the point they're inactive and lethargic as the
pictures of my fish make quite clear.

Without a necropsy on your fish, you really don't know if you're
damaging
their livers.

Why would their livers be damaged? I'm not feeding a high fat, veggie based
protein food. They range in age from several to 8 years old and breed like
rabbits every spring. They're active and not obese.

If I were selling DISEASED fish I would have been put out of business by
now. Feed don't cause disease unless it's rancid or stale.

I see. You have no ability to understand the literature.

And apparently you have no ability to understand what I wrote about the feed
I'm using.


http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/...p?article_id=8
from Dr. Erik Johnson's Koi Health and Disease
"Catfish chows are for short term use, even in Catfish! And they
eventually cause fatty liver syndrome in Koi."

"Which" Catfish chows? My koi are all healthy and for some reason that
upsets a few of you on this group. Maybe you tried the "wrong"
catfish/trout
chow if it diseased and killed your fish. Johnson keeps his koi under
very
different conditions than we keep ours and I have no idea what brands he
used that sickened his fish.

All of them, Gulley. You already stated yours is high fat at 5%,
contains
pork, and curiously haven't identified the brand you use for analysis. You
continuously question all research by DVMs, yet supply nothing but photos
as
proof of your own assertions.

5% is high for fish facing a 4 month fast? Now I see why people's koi die
during the winter fast. They have no reserves to survive the winter fast.
The brand I use Nutri Source Farm Pond Diet. Why are you suddenly so
concerned about what I feed since you've known this information for 8 years
and never said a word before?


http://www.avianandexotic.com/csfishes/csf001.pdf.
Practical Koi and Goldfish Medicine
Avian and Exotic Animal Care, PA
Raleigh, North Carolina 919-844-9166
Nutritional Diseases
Fatty liver: Koi raised on a diet that is high in fat, or contains corn
and
other low quality, plant-based proteins (e.g. catfish chow) may develop
hepatic lipidosis.

I'm not using a diet high in fats nor is the protein plant based. I've
posted that before. In fact everyone on this group knows what I've been
feeding for years now - why all of a sudden is it a big deal?

I don't know the brand you are feeding, so "everyone" does not know. And,
your unsubstantiated claims have been cause for debate for quite some
time.
Hardly, "all of a sudden."

Quite some time? This came up just recently and you've all known I use
catfish/trout chow for 8 years at least.

The protein in the feed I'm using is porcine and fish meals. The fat
content is 5.00%. It contains stabilized Vitamin C and I don't overfeed
them.

A sampling of koi food shows fat content at 3%, so yours is indeed high
fat. Do koi naturally eat pork? What brand are you feeding?

See above. The fish in the research were not in ponds and the temps were at
75F throughout. I don't live in the tropics. No matter what I fed them I
believe you would have something to say about it. Yet someone else can
recommend people illegally shoot and kill protected birds and you say
nothing. Koi are not endangered, many of our birds are.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

5% is high for fish facing a 4 month fast? Now I see why people's koi die
during the winter fast. They have no reserves to survive the winter fast.
The brand I use Nutri Source Farm Pond Diet. Why are you suddenly so
concerned about what I feed since you've known this information for 8 years
and never said a word before?

I looked up the brand and couldn't find anything with the numbers you
mentioned, but if the ingredients are digestible by the koi gut, as you
know, you're fine.

That's not to say those using koi foods are suffering deaths. My babies did
quite well on koi food and I've had no trouble selling them, not that that
is my goal. Most likely it is the brand they were using. You didn't mention
the koi food you used that you had problems with, why all prudent now?
Seems you'd want to get that information out if it produced poor results.

Yet someone else can
recommend people illegally shoot and kill protected birds and you say
nothing. Koi are not endangered, many of our birds are.

If you want to start a new thread about this, do so, but don't pull this
topic off on to something unrelated. ~ jan

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
5% is high for fish facing a 4 month fast? Now I see why people's koi
die
during the winter fast. They have no reserves to survive the winter fast.
The brand I use Nutri Source Farm Pond Diet. Why are you suddenly so
concerned about what I feed since you've known this information for 8
years
and never said a word before?
===
I looked up the brand and couldn't find anything with the numbers you
mentioned, but if the ingredients are digestible by the koi gut, as you
know, you're fine.

It's manufactured by Feed Solutions of St. Lewis Mo.

That's not to say those using koi foods are suffering deaths. My babies
did
quite well on koi food and I've had no trouble selling them, not that that
is my goal. Most likely it is the brand they were using. You didn't
mention
the koi food you used that you had problems with, why all prudent now?
Seems you'd want to get that information out if it produced poor results.

I don't care if the information gets out. People are going to believe and
buy what they want no matter what they read here. We live in a sue-crazy
society and the two trolls would quickly make sure the company who made the
food would get my post. Uh, no thanks. ;-) Also, I can't know if the
results would have been different under different climactic conditions
(steady 75F year round), different stains of koi (more expensive or cheaper
fish) or koi of different ages (the article mentioned 3 year olds). I gave
you my experience with the expensive food and for some reason you refuse to
accept it. Had I gotten at least the SAME results as I got with the cheaper
foods I would have said so.

Yet someone else can
recommend people illegally shoot and kill protected birds and you say
nothing. Koi are not endangered, many of our birds are.

If you want to start a new thread about this, do so, but don't pull this
topic off on to something unrelated. ~ jan

It's useless to start a new thread as those left here don't seem to care
about people being advised to illegally kill herons. Those who do care are
too intimidated to speak up least they face the same abuse (personal
attacks, slander) I get daily, mainly from a certain regular here.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:59:44 -0600, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

Also, I can't know if the
results would have been different under different climactic conditions
(steady 75F year round), different stains of koi (more expensive or cheaper
fish) or koi of different ages (the article mentioned 3 year olds). I gave
you my experience with the expensive food and for some reason you refuse to
accept it.

Oh I accept it, but myself and others are the ones that pointed out to you
the sentence you said before it.

It's useless to start a new thread as those left here don't seem to care
about people being advised to illegally kill herons.

Lately you're the only one who keeps bringing this up, basically used to
attack another or draw them off the topic, or, imo, beat a dead horse/your
own agenda. I know you see this as a jab, but if the shoe fits.... ~ jan

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:59:44 -0600, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

Also, I can't know if the
results would have been different under different climactic conditions
(steady 75F year round), different stains of koi (more expensive or
cheaper
fish) or koi of different ages (the article mentioned 3 year olds). I
gave
you my experience with the expensive food and for some reason you refuse
to
accept it.

Oh I accept it, but myself and others are the ones that pointed out to you
the sentence you said before it.

Which sentence I said before it? ???

It's useless to start a new thread as those left here don't seem to care
about people being advised to illegally kill herons.

Lately you're the only one who keeps bringing this up,

So it's now a taboo subject here? Why keep bringing up the koi food issue?
The food thread's been going on for days now. Not meaning to sound rude
but - are we to only discuss what interests you?

basically used to
attack another or draw them off the topic,

That's your opinion. The feed issue has been beaten to death while ignoring
another issue just as important to ponders and more so, to future
generations.

or, imo, beat a dead horse/your
own agenda.

And the koi feed is your agenda. It looks like we all have our own agendas.

I know you see this as a jab, but if the shoe fits.... ~ jan

Does the shoe fit you Jan? It appears "jabs" help alleviate your angst
over the situation this group is in. There are healthier ways to deal with
your anger and frustration. As for beating dead horses... I think you beat
the dead horse feed issue long enough.

--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

Also, I can't know if the
results would have been different under different climactic conditions
(steady 75F year round), different stains of koi (more expensive or
cheaper
fish) or koi of different ages (the article mentioned 3 year olds). I
gave
you my experience with the expensive food and for some reason you refuse
to
accept it.

Oh I accept it, but myself and others are the ones that pointed out to you
the sentence you said before it.

Which sentence I said before it? ???

This one you typed:

Also, I can't know if the results would have been different under different
climactic conditions (steady 75F year round), different stains of koi (more
expensive or cheaper fish) or koi of different ages (the article mentioned
3 year olds).

It's useless to start a new thread as those left here don't seem to care
about people being advised to illegally kill herons.

Lately you're the only one who keeps bringing this up,

So it's now a taboo subject here?

I asked you to move it to a different thread if it interested you so much,
that was all.

Why keep bringing up the koi food issue?

Because other people are interested, not just those who want to fight the
issue. You yourself asked for more information, now you're complaining
because I'm giving/finding it?

The food thread's been going on for days now. Not meaning to sound rude
but - are we to only discuss what interests you?

snip rest of unreasonable blah, blah, blah used to attack or enflame.
~ jan