Ich and tang...

Here Carol, you mistakingly posted these in a freshwater group.
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:41:56 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
wrote:


Roy "Tristin" Hauer wrote nothing of value to
anyone and was
promptly slapped down by a dead starfish:
wrote in message ...

Still trolling the groups... eh Tristan? Still making everyone as miserable
as you are..... what an ass!

WOW..this group sure has a lot of dumbasses associated with
it......shortucts, wow, pay the piper now or pay the piper
later........no such thing as a free luch.........as yo get out of it
what you put into it and that goes for not doing things right! duh!
I'm sure you'll get all kinds of usefull info on how to cure that ICH
magnet tang and rid your tank of ICH in the process all without taking
it out and putting it in a QT......This may make a good case study on
another marine group as to how not to do things!

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:59:30 -0600, "Pszemol"
wrote:

I made a stupid mistake and I added some new live rock
to an old, established tank without quarantine it first...
The effect: my large hepatus tang got ich.

I do not want to cure it in the reef and taking it out
will be a challenge. I was thinking about getting some
cleaner shrimps to eat the parasite from the fish skin.

I plan to buy two skunk cleaners (Lysmata amboinensis)
but in the mean time - how about adding some peppermint
shrimps? I have 3 medium sized Lysmata wurdermanni in
an other tank, I could move them to the tank with tang.
Do you think it is a good idea?

BTW
- I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

also known as Ocean Breeze...posted this message in the wrong group as
usual.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:34:09 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
wrote:


Roy "Tristin" Hauer known troll and net-stalker of women and disabled
wrote nothing of value or interest to anyone
and was promptly slapped down by a dead seabass in message
m...

There is help for you at the VA hosp. They will get you back on your meds
and make your life worthwhile again. Your mind will be free of your
victims......... It must sure suck to be Roy Hauer.

Dream on Carol oh lord and ruler of the million and one sock puppets.
At least my son does not prowl the alleyways looking for a little and
knock up the vermin that inhabit those regions......need I say more
there Carol? Even the motorcycle gangs have no need for folks of
your caliber anymore.....Sure sucks to be named Carol Gulley! and just
as bad to be a pecker eater named peter!



On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:42:19 -0600, "Reefer~Madness"
wrote:


"Peter Pan" wrote in message
news:48OdnTYt4KQpJHnYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast. com...
With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in
here and
berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
genius,
do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
just
get
off acting like a ****ing asshole?

He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for the
moment.
He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond
group,
destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was in
treatment
at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.

Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is semi-literate,
yet
belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself up into
something he'll never be.... sad really.


"Tristin" wrote in message
...
At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
knowledge
on what to do.....

I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
fits
the description of a plenum............duh!

Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
wrote:

Pszemol wrote:
"Add Homonym" wrote in message
...

White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
common in tangs - not in most other fish)


White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.

MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
going up
to
it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
was
expected of him.
Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
peppermint
shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
no
part
of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.


So peppermints are not as good, right?

Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as
good a
job,
but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)

OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.

So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-

take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
fish,
give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
with
formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
blue
to
help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
hurt.
After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
seperate
tank
and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
are
gone.

Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
month
or
two:

treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
and
cross
yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.

I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
product.
Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
dthe
ich
without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
this
stuff,
and the problem was resolved.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!





-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

"Tristin"
wrote nothing of value or interest to anyone and was
promptly slapped down by a dead snake in message
...
also known as Ocean Breeze...posted this message in the wrong group as
usual.

Seek help before you blow your stack and kill someone. No one here can help
you with your obsessions with Carol, Gail, Tara, Ed, Peter and the
rest.......


On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:34:09 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
wrote:


Roy "Tristin" Hauer known troll and net-stalker of women and disabled
wrote nothing of value or interest to
anyone
and was promptly slapped down by a dead seabass in message
m...

There is help for you at the VA hosp. They will get you back on your
meds
and make your life worthwhile again. Your mind will be free of your
victims......... It must sure suck to be Roy Hauer.

Dream on Carol oh lord and ruler of the million and one sock
puppets.
At least my son does not prowl the alleyways looking for a little
and
knock up the vermin that inhabit those regions......need I say more
there Carol? Even the motorcycle gangs have no need for folks of
your caliber anymore.....Sure sucks to be named Carol Gulley! and
just
as bad to be a pecker eater named peter!



On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:42:19 -0600, "Reefer~Madness"
wrote:


"Peter Pan" wrote in message
news:48OdnTYt4KQpJHnYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast. com...
With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come
in
here and
berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby.
Tell me
genius,
do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others
or you
just
get
off acting like a ****ing asshole?

He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for
the
moment.
He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond
group,
destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was
in
treatment
at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.

Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is
semi-literate,
yet
belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself
up into
something he'll never be.... sad really.


"Tristin" wrote in message
...
At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
knowledge
on what to do.....

I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a
plenum
is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its
still
fits
the description of a plenum............duh!

Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off
on and
cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
wrote:

Pszemol wrote:
"Add Homonym" wrote in
message
...

White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
common in tangs - not in most other fish)


White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his
body.

MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a
Lysmata
wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis.
Kept
going up
to
it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no
idea what
was
expected of him.
Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint
shrimp -
peppermint
shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang
wants
no
part
of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.


So peppermints are not as good, right?

Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just
as
good a
job,
but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)

OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like
cryptocaryon.

So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-

take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the
infected
fish,
give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank
water,
with
formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some
methe;yne
blue
to
help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and
won't
hurt.
After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
seperate
tank
and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all
symptoms
are
gone.

Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out
for a
month
or
two:

treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main
tank
and
cross
yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.

I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop
Parisite"
product.
Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had
kille
dthe
ich
without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then
added
this
stuff,
and the problem was resolved.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!





-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

StringerBell wrote:
I`m a little confused, are there different kinds of "Ich"?

Yes. Amyloodininium is sometimes icorrectly called "ich" - it can break
out in white spots, but they tend to look more "powdery" - crypto is
more defined dots.

Another less common thing seen in the marine world is Black Ich - mostly
seems to hit yellow tangs for some reason. Small black spots instead of
small white spots. Usually casued by some sort of plathyhelminthes
turbellaria type worms.

Is there a kind
that is not contagious?

Not really.


When I introduced a super-juvie Hippo Tang 4 months ago, it broke out in
white spots for a few days, but it went away on its own after soaking its
food in garlic for a few days. Ive never seen my other fish have any
symptoms (knock on wood).

Parasites are ubiquitous in nature. One theory says most fish have them
at low levels, and they become apparent when the fish's immune system
gets compromised (from stress, injury, or whatever) - it is quite common
to see a new fish get some form of parasite, as being ripped off a reef,
shipped halfway around the world in a dark sealed syrofoam box, put in a
tank way to small for it at the LFS, then a few days later scooped out
and put in a sealed baggie, then put into some other tank an hour or so
later, tends to be sarcasmslightly stressfull/sarcasm to the fish.


Ive read many similiar posts in reef forums. There seems to be a lot of
people who have Tangs break out in "Ich"--- but then do water changes or use
the lights less and their Tangs also recover W/O any dipping or medication.

Very often this is the case. Ich usually is nothing to worry about in a
marine system, but it CAN be an indicator that something is stressing
the fish, and lowering it's immune response. That is why water change
often works wonders...(bad water stresses fish, changing the water ends
stress, immune system recovers - parasites go away)

Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp is a
neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.

Susan
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
ink.net...
No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the parasite likes to
attach to calcium carbonate, in fact it has been shown that a tank with no
calcium carbonate material, will greatly if not completely prevent the
cycle of ich.

But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint shrimp. They will
clean some, but get some cleaner shrimp in there. If the tang is healthy,
and has no other stress factors it will heal up just fine with some
cleaner shrimp in there.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 2/27/2007 3:48 PM:
"KurtG" wrote in message
.. .
Pszemol wrote:
White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.

I can almost see torches and pitch forks waving while I write this, but
I'd vacuum the plenum after the white spots drop off. It's not really a
cure, but it may help you break the cycle w/ the help of your shrimp
friends.

I did that with mine, and I haven't seen Ich since. It also pulled an
amazing amount of crud out of my system, and I just have a thin sand
layer.

I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plenum

My tank is DSB and I am not going to vacuum fine sand out...
Vacuuming would not work.

"Susan" wrote in message news:gCiFh.9222$Xe1.7486@trndny01...
Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp
is a neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.

Interesting... I will look at these guys.

Pszemol wrote:
"Susan" wrote in message
news:gCiFh.9222$Xe1.7486@trndny01...

Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp
is a neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.


Interesting... I will look at these guys.

Or a cleaner wrasse....

dons an asbestos suit, ducks

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ink.net...
No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the
parasite likes to attach to calcium carbonate, in
fact it has been shown that a tank with no calcium
carbonate material, will greatly if not completely
prevent the cycle of ich.

Did not know this... interesting.

But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint
shrimp. They will clean some, but get some cleaner
shrimp in there. If the tang is healthy, and has no
other stress factors it will heal up just fine with
some cleaner shrimp in there.

I could not catch peppermint in the other tank.
So right after work I went out to the store, picked up
one Lysmata amboinensis (they all had this "black
spot disease" so it was very hard to pick even one
with little less visible symptoms).

After lights out I introduced new shrimp to the tank
and went to sleep.

Today when I went to work I could not inspect fish,
it was sleeping behind rocks, but now, I am home
and I see fish has almost no white spots. I see
drastic change. From about 20 spots now I can
see empty places where the parasite was sitting
and maybe 2 or 3 where it is still something there.

I am not sure if the shrimp was so active or if the
parasite was ready to drop from the fish on its own.

I fed the tang generous portion of dried algae and
some meat pellets, what else can I do to help him ?

Should I continue feeding him sliced garlic?
Here is interesting article about ich and garlic:
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...and-Garlic.htm

Yea neon gobies are neat cleaner fish, but they do
have one major drawback, and that is that they are
so small that they tend to go down the overflow, or
get sucked through prefilters. But yes, they are
very active cleaners, and cute too.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Susan wrote on 2/28/2007 12:04 PM:
Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp is a
neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.

Susan
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
ink.net...
No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the parasite likes to
attach to calcium carbonate, in fact it has been shown that a tank with no
calcium carbonate material, will greatly if not completely prevent the
cycle of ich.

But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint shrimp. They will
clean some, but get some cleaner shrimp in there. If the tang is healthy,
and has no other stress factors it will heal up just fine with some
cleaner shrimp in there.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 2/27/2007 3:48 PM:
"KurtG" wrote in message
.. .
Pszemol wrote:
White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
I can almost see torches and pitch forks waving while I write this, but
I'd vacuum the plenum after the white spots drop off. It's not really a
cure, but it may help you break the cycle w/ the help of your shrimp
friends.

I did that with mine, and I haven't seen Ich since. It also pulled an
amazing amount of crud out of my system, and I just have a thin sand
layer.
I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plenum

My tank is DSB and I am not going to vacuum fine sand out...
Vacuuming would not work.

The black spots on shrimp, are like a bruising of
the cells, but usually does not kill the cleaner
shrimp, and is usually temporary.

Do whatever keeps the tang healthy and stress free.
It may get the ich again, but it should be less if
it gets it again.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 2/28/2007 1:50 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
ink.net...
No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the parasite likes to
attach to calcium carbonate, in fact it has been shown that a tank
with no calcium carbonate material, will greatly if not completely
prevent the cycle of ich.

Did not know this... interesting.

But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint shrimp. They will
clean some, but get some cleaner shrimp in there. If the tang is
healthy, and has no other stress factors it will heal up just fine
with some cleaner shrimp in there.

I could not catch peppermint in the other tank.
So right after work I went out to the store, picked up
one Lysmata amboinensis (they all had this "black
spot disease" so it was very hard to pick even one
with little less visible symptoms).

After lights out I introduced new shrimp to the tank
and went to sleep.

Today when I went to work I could not inspect fish,
it was sleeping behind rocks, but now, I am home
and I see fish has almost no white spots. I see
drastic change. From about 20 spots now I can
see empty places where the parasite was sitting
and maybe 2 or 3 where it is still something there.

I am not sure if the shrimp was so active or if the
parasite was ready to drop from the fish on its own.

I fed the tang generous portion of dried algae and
some meat pellets, what else can I do to help him ?

Should I continue feeding him sliced garlic?
Here is interesting article about ich and garlic:
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...and-Garlic.htm