UV or not

nntp.nildram.co.uk wrote:
i do have a problem with green algae but i have hermit crabs and turbo
snails along with a yellow tang. I've been thinking of adding a UV
sterilizer to my system but would this starve the snails and crabs.

It won't starve the snails and crabs, but I think it will do little to fix your
algae problem. I had UV sterilizers on my system for years. The main effect was
that infestations like ich slowed down a lot; the sterilizers gave time for
treatment.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

"George Patterson" wrote in message newskrGh.180$iD4.83@trnddc06...
I had UV sterilizers on my system for years. The main effect was
that infestations like ich slowed down a lot; the sterilizers gave
time for treatment.

Could you present scientific method leading you to this conclusion? :-)

Screw you and your proof you little lazy assed son of a bitch, Go do
some freaking legwork on your own for a freaking change........why the
**** does everyone always have to prove what they say to you ya
asshole! Your about an untrusting individual there mr engineer. or
just plain ****ing lazy!

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:16:10 -0600, "Pszemol"
wrote:

"George Patterson" wrote in message newskrGh.180$iD4.83@trnddc06...
I had UV sterilizers on my system for years. The main effect was
that infestations like ich slowed down a lot; the sterilizers gave
time for treatment.

Could you present scientific method leading you to this conclusion? :-)



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Pszemol wrote:

Could you present scientific method leading you to this conclusion? :-)

Yes. Over 25 years of personal observation.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:ZdDGh.1988$nf5.651@trnddc05...
Pszemol wrote:

Could you present scientific method leading you to this conclusion? :-)

Yes. Over 25 years of personal observation.

Could you give me more details?

Pszemol wrote:

Could you give me more details?

I started keeping marine fish in 1975. Those were the days of the undergravel
filter, and the use of powerheads was hailed as a great advance by my friends
the next year. I started out with a 10 gallon tank and could keep one or two
fish alive with a great deal of effort. In 1977, I scored a great deal on a used
100 gallon tank. In the early 90s, I swapped for the 125 I have today. Until
last year, everything was fish-only with a variety of filtration methods. I did
not set up a hospital tank until last year when I started adding live rock.

I first added a UV sterilizer to my tank about 1977 or '78. It was an 8 watt
unit. In the early '90s, I added another. In 2005, I went back to an 8 watt unit.

Without a hospital tank, adding a new fish was always hazardous. Back when I had
no UV on the tank, once one of the fish started showing signs, the life
expectancy of that fish was usually less than 3 days; they could not take the
combined stress of the parasites and the copper treatment. Other fish in the
tank would invariably show signs of infestation later, but would usually make it
through. Once the first sterilizer was added, the rate at which the disease
spread decreased; my theory is that some of the parasites were being killed in
their free-swimming stage. After that, the first fish to show signs usually
survived, and some of the other fish would never show any signs at all.

Once I added the second sterilizer, I never lost a fish to ich, though I did get
the occasional infestation. In short, there was a direct relationship to the
number of watts of UV and the intensity and rate of spread of the disease.

Since I was not religious in changing the bulbs (and the bulbs get less
effective with time), I was also in a position to notice that an outbreak was
worse when the sterilizer bulb was pretty old. Again, this didn't happen once I
had two units running.

Since I've moved in the direction of a reef tank, I no longer have one hooked up
to the main tank. At the moment, my hospital tank is housing my cichlids while I
renovate their bedroom, but my remaining UV will go on the hospital tank once I
set that back up.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:_cFGh.558$3i.295@trnddc01...
Pszemol wrote:

Could you give me more details?

I started keeping marine fish in 1975. Those were the days of the undergravel
filter, and the use of powerheads was hailed as a great advance by my friends

I am afraid we misunderstood each other.
I was hoping to hear about details of your scientific experiment and
you are giving me details on how you kept your fishtanks...
This is not what I was asking about.

To really tell how UV influences fish/ich you need to have controlled
group of fish without UV in the tank and expose both groups of fish
with the same amounts of parasite...

During the experiment you would need to actually measure water
flow through the UV lamp estimating UV exposure time for the
disease organisms have some detailed data on fish infections
with real dates and real numbers...

If you do not have all this than your statements are based on anegdotal
evidence or no evidence at all rather wishfull thinking instead.

And it really does not matter if you have tanks for 25 years or 2 months.
Scientific method is much more important in judging how UV affects ich.

Your about a dumbass there Pszemol....don;t trust a ****ing individual
with out a lot of red tape and paper trails huh, why are you so
****ing paranoid there dude...what a moron.........just like hei hero
Wayne of Waynes Dead Pets Hope ya do not mind me recomending your
email addy....I have a few friends in need of a few addys for an
experiiment. Did I tell yuou that your a moron there Pszemol? Well
if not , you certainly are!



..On Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:19:37 -0600, "Pszemol"
wrote:

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:_cFGh.558$3i.295@trnddc01...
Pszemol wrote:

Could you give me more details?

I started keeping marine fish in 1975. Those were the days of the undergravel
filter, and the use of powerheads was hailed as a great advance by my friends

I am afraid we misunderstood each other.
I was hoping to hear about details of your scientific experiment and
you are giving me details on how you kept your fishtanks...
This is not what I was asking about.

To really tell how UV influences fish/ich you need to have controlled
group of fish without UV in the tank and expose both groups of fish
with the same amounts of parasite...

During the experiment you would need to actually measure water
flow through the UV lamp estimating UV exposure time for the
disease organisms have some detailed data on fish infections
with real dates and real numbers...

If you do not have all this than your statements are based on anegdotal
evidence or no evidence at all rather wishfull thinking instead.

And it really does not matter if you have tanks for 25 years or 2 months.
Scientific method is much more important in judging how UV affects ich.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Actually Pszemol, you left out a lot of important
detail about how to properly do a scientific study.

You also need to do the following.

Make sure the fish are of the exact same age.
Make sure the fish are of the exact same size.
Make sure the fish are of the exact same mas.
Water of the same exact temp +- .00001 degree.
Tank size of the exact gallons
Tank size of the exact dimensions.
Rock, sand, gravel of the exact same mas.
Rock, sand, gravel of the exact same size
Position in the room of the exact same location.
Sound in the tanks to be the exact same.
Food measured out to the .00001 kilograms.
Lighting measured daily to make sure each tank is
getting exactly the same amount.
At least 10 tanks of the control.
At least 10 tanks of the test.
Run the test each year for 10 years.
Run the test at different barometric pressures.

But the reality is that what George presented is
sufficient to show what he has stated, and it agrees
with the results that many other people have seen.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 3/5/2007 10:19 AM:
"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:_cFGh.558$3i.295@trnddc01...
Pszemol wrote:

Could you give me more details?

I started keeping marine fish in 1975. Those were the days of the
undergravel filter, and the use of powerheads was hailed as a great
advance by my friends

I am afraid we misunderstood each other.
I was hoping to hear about details of your scientific experiment and
you are giving me details on how you kept your fishtanks...
This is not what I was asking about.

To really tell how UV influences fish/ich you need to have controlled
group of fish without UV in the tank and expose both groups of fish
with the same amounts of parasite...

During the experiment you would need to actually measure water
flow through the UV lamp estimating UV exposure time for the
disease organisms have some detailed data on fish infections
with real dates and real numbers...

If you do not have all this than your statements are based on anegdotal
evidence or no evidence at all rather wishfull thinking instead.

And it really does not matter if you have tanks for 25 years or 2 months.
Scientific method is much more important in judging how UV affects ich.

Pszemol wrote:

And it really does not matter if you have tanks for 25 years or 2 months.
Scientific method is much more important in judging how UV affects ich.

Observation is the single most important tool in the scientific method, and, in
most sciences, it is the only tool. Nearly everything we know about this world
has been learned purely by observation.

I suppose you regard the fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun as
"anegdotal evidence or wishfull thinking?"

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.